Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

Back in the olden days, when my dad was doing the scoring for the Packers, if the QB quite clearly gave up on the pass attempt and was running forward, it was recorded as a rushing attempt, not a sack. I don't know when that was changed, but I don't think it was a good change for a rather simple reason: More often than not, it results in a sack being award to someone who doesn't really deserve it.

For example, the QB drops back but extreme pressure from his left forces him to roll out of the pocket to the right. He pulls the ball down and starts to run. Just as he approaches the line of scrimmage, a linebacker who was originally in coverage comes up to tackle him for a 1-yard loss and is awarded a sack. If the QB had been a little quicker or the LB had been a little deeper and there had been a gain of 1 yard instead of a loss of 1 yard, the play would have been recorded as a rushing attempt. To me, it became a rushing attempt the moment the QB pulled the ball down.

Something odd that I have just noticed is that there appears to be an inconsistency in the way that the totals are compiled.

In the Week 1 Bears vs Falcons game, Bears ILB Jerrell Freeman is credited with 7 Tackles and 3 Assists. In the play-by-play he has 7 solo tackles, 2 assisted tackles and 1 tackle assist. So they have combined the assisted (2) & assist (1) totals to get the "Assists".

In the Week 2 Bears at Buccaneers game, Bears S Eddie Jackson is credited with 7 Tackles and 1 Assist. In the play-by-play he has 4 solo tackles, 3 assisted tackles and 1 tackle assist. This is different as they have combined the solo (4) & assisted (3) totals to get the "Tackles" total (7) and just used the assist (1) total for "Assists".

So, home and away scoring of tackle totals appears to be different, which makes a mess of things.

If you applied the Week 1 logic to Week 2, Jackson would have 4 tackles & 4 assists. Week 2 logic to Week 1 would give Freeman 9 tackles & 1 assist.

They should really just list the three totals (solo, assisted & assist) from the Play Statistics Report.

I'm sticking with my own method as it makes sense.

LJP wrote:Something odd that I have just noticed is that there appears to be an inconsistency in the way that the totals are compiled.

In the Week 1 Bears vs Falcons game, Bears ILB Jerrell Freeman is credited with 7 Tackles and 3 Assists. In the play-by-play he has 7 solo tackles, 2 assisted tackles and 1 tackle assist. So they have combined the assisted (2) & assist (1) totals to get the "Assists".

In the Week 2 Bears at Buccaneers game, Bears S Eddie Jackson is credited with 7 Tackles and 1 Assist. In the play-by-play he has 4 solo tackles, 3 assisted tackles and 1 tackle assist. This is different as they have combined the solo (4) & assisted (3) totals to get the "Tackles" total (7) and just used the assist (1) total for "Assists".

So, home and away scoring of tackle totals appears to be different, which makes a mess of things.

If you applied the Week 1 logic to Week 2, Jackson would have 4 tackles & 4 assists. Week 2 logic to Week 1 would give Freeman 9 tackles & 1 assist.

They should really just list the three totals (solo, assisted & assist) from the Play Statistics Report.

I'm sticking with my own method as it makes sense.

Well, that's because for some screwy reason in the Week 1 game on every two-player tackle both players were given a "Tackle Assist." UGH!

Also, you can figure out what types of tackles they are scoring in the play-by-play (thus bypassing the Play Statistics Report).
If it's an Assisted Tackle and Tackle Assist the players names are separated by a comma. If it's Tackle Assist and Tackle Assist they are separated by a semi-colon.

TodMaher wrote:Well, that's because for some screwy reason in the Week 1 game on every two-player tackle both players were given a "Tackle Assist." UGH!

Looking back through the Bears home Gamebooks on NFLGSIS, this appears to have been the case since 2011.

Before then, Assisted Tackle & Tackle Assist were being recorded, but since then it just seems to be Tackle Assist & Tackle Assist.

There are odd cases in a number of the road Gamebooks too, where both Assisted Tackle & Tackle Assist are recorded and also Tackle Assist & Tackle Assist.

Confusion solved, sort of.

The NFL's Guide for Statisticians doesn't appear to define how tackles should be recorded, so you end up getting a mixture from game to game and sometimes in the same game.

Logically the solo tackle, assisted tackle and tackle assist make sense, but if there is no standard to follow then you get the current mess, especially when the three are combined in different ways.

I'm reviving this thread because I recently went down the rabbit hole of trying to understand how muffs/fumbles and solo/assisted tackles are scored.

Let's start with tackles since that's what this thread is about. You know how gamebooks have TKL, AST, and COMB listed under defensive statistics? Up until today I thought TKL was strictly solo tackles, and that AST was when two players combined for a tackle, in which case I assumed each of those players tallied "1" under that column. Then I found this thread and checked out the Play Statistics Report... On assisted tackles, apparently the first player to the ballcarrier gets a "1" under TKL, and the player aiding him gets a "1" under AST? This makes even less sense to me than the incorrect way I was previously going off of...

I'd love to hear your opinions on scoring tackles and what you guys think makes the most sense. To me, the COMB number doesn't even make sense because it's just some inflated total that doesn't really mean much. I'd label things as TT (total tackles), UT (unassisted tackles), and AT (assisted tackles). A player would tally "1" UT for making a solo tackle, and for AT I'd tally a "1" to only the first defender to get a hold of the ballcarrier, and what makes it an AT over a UT is that he needed help getting the ballcarrier down. Boom. Simple. No trying to figure out who else to give credit to in the middle of a pile-up, just award an assisted tackle to the first guy in a scrum to hit the ballcarrier. In this scenerio, TT would then represent the true number of tackles your defense made in a game.

As for muffs and fumbles, I feel like the Guide for Statisticians (and therefore the league) makes this way more convoluted than it needs to be. I'll spare you all by avoiding reciting all the different scenerios for why something is a fumble or just a muff or nothing at all, but if anyone here cares to explain the reasoning behind what's what I'd love to hear it.

Just like with the rulebook I feel the NFL twists themselves in knots with stat keeping sometimes.