Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

rhickok1109 wrote:The question of why effects are different for each player applies to just about any physical ailment you can name. Why do some smokers get lung cancer while some non-smokers do? Why does someone who has every risk factor for chronic artery disease not suffer from it while someone dies of it without having any of the risk factors? Someday, questions like this may be answered, at least partially, but it's quite possible that purely random factors are involved.

But to me, the difference between your lung cancer/chronic artery disease examples and CTE is that the CTE studies conclude that virtually every NFL player (110/111) has CTE. Its not like everyone gets lung cancer, but there are just certain people that die from it. If everyone eventually suffered from chronic artery disease, there wouldn't even be such a thing as "risk factors"...everyone would just be naturally predisposed to getting it. That's why I'm not sure what conclusion should be drawn from these studies.

rhickok1109 wrote:The statement, "You could get CTE from multiple sub-concussive impacts!" is not ridiculous; it's based on evidence. If that makes it harder to nail down a cause, of course that's a shame, but it's also a fact.

Yes, my statement probably wasn't correct and I get what you are saying, but to me "multiple" is a vague term. How many sub-concussive impacts does it take to get CTE? 2? 200,000? Is there any relationship to the amount of sub-concussive impacts and the acuteness of CTE? Maybe my issue is more in how this is all being reported...as you say, very few cases have actually been studied, so why is the media reporting on this as if its significant?

Bryan wrote:

rhickok1109 wrote:The question of why effects are different for each player applies to just about any physical ailment you can name. Why do some smokers get lung cancer while some non-smokers do? Why does someone who has every risk factor for chronic artery disease not suffer from it while someone dies of it without having any of the risk factors? Someday, questions like this may be answered, at least partially, but it's quite possible that purely random factors are involved.

But to me, the difference between your lung cancer/chronic artery disease examples and CTE is that the CTE studies conclude that virtually every NFL player (110/111) has CTE. Its not like everyone gets lung cancer, but there are just certain people that die from it. If everyone eventually suffered from chronic artery disease, there wouldn't even be such a thing as "risk factors"...everyone would just be naturally predisposed to getting it. That's why I'm not sure what conclusion should be drawn from these studies.

rhickok1109 wrote:The statement, "You could get CTE from multiple sub-concussive impacts!" is not ridiculous; it's based on evidence. If that makes it harder to nail down a cause, of course that's a shame, but it's also a fact.

Yes, my statement probably wasn't correct and I get what you are saying, but to me "multiple" is a vague term. How many sub-concussive impacts does it take to get CTE? 2? 200,000? Is there any relationship to the amount of sub-concussive impacts and the acuteness of CTE? Maybe my issue is more in how this is all being reported...as you say, very few cases have actually been studied, so why is the media reporting on this as if its significant?

In the case of Mike Webster, it was estimated he probably suffered, if I remember correctly, about 35 thousand sub-concussive impacts during the course of his entire football career, high school, college, pro, practices, games, etc. Watching the footage from his playing career, he suffered helmet to helmet hits on every single play on the line, usually multiple times on the same play.

The results of this CTE study are heartbreaking but not completely surprising. Football players are the modern day gladiators, who give their bodies to the game. It is an inherently dangerous game, and with modern technological advances such as new helmet designs, they can reduce the risk of injuries. Modern medicine and strength training reduces career-ending injuries and speeds up recovery. However, with speed and size, there are always going to be hard hits, and I worry CTE is something we will never be able to get rid of but can only reduce as much as possible thru screening and perhaps medical advances in the future.

The thing about safer equipment is that it becomes more of a weapon than less protective equipment. Football is trying to minimize the use of the helmet as a weapon but it will never be completely eliminated.

Better quality shoulder and elbow pads have contributed greatly to the concussion problem in hockey.

Bryan wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:17 am You could get CTE from multiple sub-concussive impacts!"...which is a ridiculous thing to say if you are truly trying to find a cause for CTE, because you could play any sport and receive 'multiple sub-concussive impacts'. It would be like saying you could get lung cancer from breathing air.

I recognize that CTE is a problem, but I think the research thus far hasn't shed light on any possible solutions.

There’s a solution but I doubt most members here would like it or even want to hear it.

This is an old Topic and since this there’s been a bunch of new reporting on the effects of Blast Over Pressure (BOP) or high G (especially rapid onset G) on the brain.

The rotten fact is our bodies below the neck and our machines can overwhelm the limited trauma mitigation capacities of our brains, unless we don’t care about the more outward logical parts of our brain and are cool with just being emotional and reptilian in our actions.

My 30lb dog once quickly jerked her head up while we were playing on the couch and knocked me in the head. It hurt, she didn’t even blink so I looked it up. Dogs have a thicker skull and more musculature in their skulls to absorb impact. The current human skull/brain sucks at high acceleration trauma. So maybe more helmets like the WR Doubs on GB was wearing?

Links to articles on military research into BOP:

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/08/us/n ... opgun.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/06/us/t ... njury.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/21/us/a ... uries.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/05/us/u ... tagon.html