top 10 Patriots of all time

[rewing84]

your excatly right bachs lunch never understood about gino cappeletti for the hof there are a ton of wrs that need to go in before gc IE: Cliff Branch Drew Pearson and the list goes on and on

[Reaser]

I also don't get the love for Gino Cappelletti, who some oddly tout for the HoF. One could easily argue that Jim Colclough was at the utter least every bit as good as Cappelletti as a receiver and usually better during the Pats' first six seasons overall. As a kicker, Cappelletti converted 52.9% of FG tries, which doesn't seem too special for the time best as I can see. He also had no 1st team all pro selections and is not on the all-AFL team.

This seems a bit basic. He won all the 1964 AFL MVP/Player of the Year awards which supersedes being "1st-team all-pro". The year prior he was the Eastern Division Player of the Year. Plus he was an All-AFL kicker when they added the spot to their All-AFL teams.

Which the 'all-pros'/All-AFL needs some context. He was generally a 2nd-team Flanker. Which it's hard to punish him for that when Lance Alworth was sweeping 1st-team Flanker year after year. He was also the de-facto 1st-team flanker in his division during those years. Then you consider that there was no All-AFL Kicker for a majority of the leagues existence, which he could have picked up 1 or 2 more "1st-team" of those. So all things considered he was the best player in the AFL at one time, he was at a time the best Kicker in the AFL and he was in the group of next best FL to Lance Alworth for a handful of seasons. Then he was the best player in his division for at least two-years, the best FL in his division for a handful of years and the best kicker in his division for many years.

As far as 'stats', being the all-time leader in points for a professional league (a record that obviously will never be broken) probably outweighs a career FG%. Especially since on the year-to-year it doesn't look as bad with being 1st or 2nd in FG% in the AFL for a majority of the time between '61-65. The last half of his career is where he was passed-by as a premier kicker but for roughly half the AFL's existence he was either THE or a top kicker in the AFL.

As for All-Time All-AFL team he probably should be on it. Again, it's the voting structure that hurts him. When you're one of the best Flankers and one of the best Kickers -for anywhere between a third and half of the leagues existence- as opposed to being the best at either you get punished for being the better all-around player.

Here's a random basketball analogy; Player A is the best offensive player but doesn't play defense. Player B is the best defensive player but doesn't play offense. Player C (Cappelletti) is one of the best offensive players and one of the best defensive players. Which player is the best all-around player? Player C, obviously.

That's why you have to look past specialization and one-position players, especially the further you go back. Doesn't really apply to today. Unless someone like Antonio Brown has a season where he's the 2nd best PR and 3rd best WR. Gets a 2nd-team all-pro when it's extremely likely he would have had a better season and been a better football player that season than 2nd best WR in the league who got 1st-team All-Pro but who does nothing else except play WR. Cappelletti did a lot of things - even more than just catch passes and kick.

I wouldn't put him in 'my' HOF, but he certainly wouldn't be out of place in the PFHOF for what the PFHOF is and who they've previously elected. He has honors/awards (when you actually look at it) and he has a pretty major statistical record.

[Jay Z]

Cappelletti was nothing special as a receiver statistically. He never stood out from his teammates, Colclough, Art Graham, whomever. He wasn't deserving of all AFL honors.

Antwine? Didn't play on great defenses. They had some good stats against the run in 1966. Of course, their stats against the pass were not good, so teams may not have bothered trying to run.

Buoniconti as mentioned split his career. Didn't play on playoff teams.

It's hard to reward a '60s Patriots team that only made the playoffs once. In an 8 team league. They had some good players, some decent records. But who do you take off from the top 10? Nelson and Brown were Pats lifers, Law an all pro. Stanley Morgan was better than Cappelletti; it isn't particularly close. Heroes on teams that actually made it to the Super Bowl, that actually won the Super Bowl. Instead of good players on an old also ran team.

Vinitieri, he's a kicker, I am not a big fan of kickers. Again, though, he's a playoff hero several times over.

[Bryan]

This seems a bit basic. He won all the 1964 AFL MVP/Player of the Year awards which supersedes being "1st-team all-pro". The year prior he was the Eastern Division Player of the Year. Plus he was an All-AFL kicker when they added the spot to their All-AFL teams.

Which the 'all-pros'/All-AFL needs some context. He was generally a 2nd-team Flanker. Which it's hard to punish him for that when Lance Alworth was sweeping 1st-team Flanker year after year. He was also the de-facto 1st-team flanker in his division during those years. Then you consider that there was no All-AFL Kicker for a majority of the leagues existence, which he could have picked up 1 or 2 more "1st-team" of those. So all things considered he was the best player in the AFL at one time, he was at a time the best Kicker in the AFL and he was in the group of next best FL to Lance Alworth for a handful of seasons. Then he was the best player in his division for at least two-years, the best FL in his division for a handful of years and the best kicker in his division for many years.

As for All-Time All-AFL team he probably should be on it. Again, it's the voting structure that hurts him. When you're one of the best Flankers and one of the best Kickers -for anywhere between a third and half of the leagues existence- as opposed to being the best at either you get punished for being the better all-around player.

That's why you have to look past specialization and one-position players, especially the further you go back. Doesn't really apply to today. Unless someone like Antonio Brown has a season where he's the 2nd best PR and 3rd best WR. Gets a 2nd-team all-pro when it's extremely likely he would have had a better season and been a better football player that season than 2nd best WR in the league who got 1st-team All-Pro but who does nothing else except play WR. Cappelletti did a lot of things - even more than just catch passes and kick.

I wouldn't put him in 'my' HOF, but he certainly wouldn't be out of place in the PFHOF for what the PFHOF is and who they've previously elected. He has honors/awards (when you actually look at it) and he has a pretty major statistical record.

This Cappelletti 'situation' reminds me of Gordie Soltau's 1953 season. He has a nice year with a 43-620-6 receiving statline and earns 2nd-team All NFL honors at OE behind Crazylegs Hirsch and Pete Pihos...but due to his kicking Soltau leads the NFL in scoring with 114 points which is easily more than Pihos and Hirsch combined (88 points).

[Gary Najman]

Did Richard Seymour and/or Vince Wilfork were in the "best of the rest" or were at least mentioned?

[rhickok1109]

Did Richard Seymour and/or Vince Wilfork were in the "best of the rest" or were at least mentioned?

The were both much better than Antwine.

[Todd Pence]

The article mentions that people might be surprised that Drew Bledsoe is not on the list. Well, if you're going to include another quarterback, doesn't Steve Grogan have a much better case than Bledsoe?

Other players who should be considered for this list: Logan Mankins, Bruce Armstrong, Matt Light, Vince Wilfork and Raymond Clayborn.

[John Grasso]

Every time I see the title of this thread I expect to find names such as
John Adams, Thomas Jefferson and Thomas Paine.

[Bryan]

Every time I see the title of this thread I expect to find names such as
John Adams, Thomas Jefferson and Thomas Paine.

I would put Sam Adams above all three of those guys. Not only was he a starting offensive guard, he was also pretty good at brewing beer in mass quantities.

[JohnH19]

mmmm...Sam Adams...