Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

Could the mid to late 70's Patriots be in this discussion? If not for the Sugar Bear Hamilton penalty I think they probably win the Super Bowl that year. I mean yes Grogan at that time was extremely young and mistake prone, but he also was a big threat with his legs (almost 400 yards rushing, 12 rushing TDS) but their running attack by committee was lethal and the defense was really gelling by the time they rolled into the playoffs (though it was never a truly dominant D)

74_75_78_79_ wrote: A bit off-topic but not wanting to start new thread, what Cardinals 'big-three' do you prefer - Hart/Metcalf/Gray or Lomax/Ottis A/Roy Green?

I have a lot of respect for what O J Anderson did with the Giants so that would proably (anmd perhaps unfairly) be the tiebreaker...
...but that is a really tough question!

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/p ... deOt00.htm

sheajets wrote:Could the mid to late 70's Patriots be in this discussion? If not for the Sugar Bear Hamilton penalty I think they probably win the Super Bowl that year. I mean yes Grogan at that time was extremely young and mistake prone, but he also was a big threat with his legs (almost 400 yards rushing, 12 rushing TDS) but their running attack by committee was lethal and the defense was really gelling by the time they rolled into the playoffs (though it was never a truly dominant D)

1977 was another "should have been" year for the Pats. They lost games in Weeks 2 and 3 after Hannah and Gray walked out, falling to the Browns in OT and then losing in the final minutes to a Jets team that finished 3-11, with their other two wins coming against their fellow 3-11 teams, the Bills and Saints. Then they got screwed with the quick whistle in the final game at Baltimore.

Winning those three games would have sent the Raiders to Foxborough, with the revenge angle hyped to the max. Had they won there, they still would have gone to Denver, but then the Broncos needed another blown call to get past Oakland.

Entering that final game against Baltimore, the Pats had won five games in a row, so they would have gone into the postseason on a roll. Whether or not that could have gotten them past Dallas is highly debatable.

74_75_78_79_ wrote:We'll never know if the Cards would have made things "not boring" against the Steel Curtain in a hypo-SB between the two at that time. Great defense usually beats great offense as evidenced in SBXIX & SBXLVIII at the expense of '84 Dolphins & '13 Broncos respectively - both offenses quite more potent than Cards. Heck, we all saw what Steelers did to those Colts both '75 & '76 divisionals.

A bit off-topic but not wanting to start new thread, what Cardinals 'big-three' do you prefer - Hart/Metcalf/Gray or Lomax/Ottis A/Roy Green?

That's a tough one, I could add another quality RB to each of those deck of Cards. Along with Metcalf, the 70s Cards had Jim Otis, a punishing big back. The 80s Cards had Stump Mitchell, a versatile, short back who had less quickness than Metcalf, but more power.

Both of these teams of course had to go up against four of the big bad teams of that decade- Steelers/Raiders/Vikings/Rams. But while the Colts always truggled against the AFC big two (with all respect to Miami from 1975-1977), he Cardinals actually held their own against the Cowboys- beating them out for the division title in '75.

One thing I will say is that the Colts had two playoff games at home and didn't come through while the Cardinals never had that fortune.

I always wonder if the Cardinals might have had a slightly better playoff fate had they gotten to host a game at Busch Stadium? The Vikings were almost impossible to beat at the Met back in the day and the Rams had a good record at the LA Coliseum more often than not.

One nearly-forgotten player who played for both clubs at that time was cornerback Norm Thompson. In 1977 he was the first free agent to change teams (the Colts gave Draft compensations for the 32-year old Thompson, who played three seasons for the Colts). He never went to the Pro Bowl or was All-Pro.

The '70s seem particularly rich with these kinds of cusp teams, probably because while the playoffs weren't the exclusive domain of the very top teams as they'd been in the past, making the post-season wasn't the near-given it is now. For instance, if the current NFL playoff structure (four wildcard teams per conference) had been in place back then, the Lions would have made the playoffs every year from 1970-75.

Teo wrote:One nearly-forgotten player who played for both clubs at that time was cornerback Norm Thompson. In 1977 he was the first free agent to change teams (the Colts gave Draft compensations for the 32-year old Thompson, who played three seasons for the Colts). He never went to the Pro Bowl or was All-Pro.

Thompson was the first free agent under the new free agent rules. I believe R.C. Owens was the first actual free agent to go from one NFL team to another since the loosy-goosey early days.

Players could play out their option year, at a discounted contract to the team. If they signed with a new team, the old and new team would attempt to work out compensation. Usually they were able to do so. A total of four times, I believe, compensation could not be agreed on and the "Rozelle Rule" was put into effect. Basically, Pete Rozelle decided what the compensation would be. Usually the compensation was draft choices, occasionally a player or players.

When Ron Jessie went from the Lions to the Rams in 1975, the teams couldn't agree on compensation. Rozelle decided the compensation should be Cullen Bryant. Bryant sued the league and won, and the Rozelle Rule was abolished.

For a brief time there was no compensation for free agents. John Riggins went from the Jets to the Redskins with no compensation. Then the NFL negotiated a formula with the union that would assign draft choices to the team the FA left based upon the size of the contract the player signed. This formula proved so restrictive that players very rarely went from team to team via FA. A really bad negotiation by the players union this case. NFL free agency was almost at zero until "Plan B" started in the late 1980s.

CSKreager wrote:I always wonder if the Cardinals might have had a slightly better playoff fate had they gotten to host a game at Busch Stadium? The Vikings were almost impossible to beat at the Met back in the day and the Rams had a good record at the LA Coliseum more often than not.

In 1974-75, the Cardinals were 11-3 at Busch, with two losses coming in '74: a 28-24 loss to the Vikes on MNF and an odd 17-13 loss to the 4-7 Chiefs. In '75, their only loss came in their Thanksgiving game against Buffalo.

In the non-playoff years of 1976-77, they were 10-2 at home before entering the Thanksgiving game against Miami, where Griese shredded the Cardinal defense and started them on their deadly tailspin. Two weeks later, they lost a close game against the Skins that knocked them out of the playoffs and helped push Coryell out.

I have a couple of questions about these teams, please chime in with any anecdotes you remember.

1. Terry Metcalf had one of the worst ratios of fumbles per touches in NFL history, I think it's about one fumble for every 20 touches (including rushes, receptions and returns). My question is, how many of those fumbles really cost the Cards? I know his fumble in the 1974 NFL playoffs was returned for a TD by Nate Wright and really put the Cards in a hole. Was Metcalf's role ever diminished because of his fumbling, or was it considered a non-issue, kind of like Ken Stabler's interceptions (in other words, worth the risk for the big-play TD rewards).

2. Does anyone remember Colt RB Ron "The Animal" Lee? He had some great runs against the Raiders in the 1977 AFC playoffs. What happened to him and why didn't he become a feared back in the league?

Lastly, just an FYI for those looking for mid-70s Cardinals stuff, there's some footage of the St. Louis vs. San Diego 1976 pre-season game in Japan on YouTube at this link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLXgh8Q1ucs . Definitely an odd find.