Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

Gifford had a long career, but not a long career as a running back. He played mostly defense his first two seasons, and was a full-time flanker during his last three. So he was a RB in 7 out of 12 seasons.

JeffreyMiller wrote:I don't know Ralph. Without having the stats in front of me, it just seems like Giff's career was much longer and he was an all-pro or pro bowler fairly regularly. His Giants teams won a championship and appeared in several title games. Again, I don't have stats right here with me ....

I don't know, either ... that's the reason for the question mark

conace21 wrote:Gifford had a long career, but not a long career as a running back. He played mostly defense his first two seasons, and was a full-time flanker during his last three. So he was a RB in 7 out of 12 seasons.

If Pro Football Reference is correct, Gifford had six pro bowls and four All-Pros is those seven years in which he was listed primarily as a halfback. Not too shabby.

Based on all of your facts, it appears Tiki Barber will have quite a difficult time getting the voters on his side for the Hall of Fame. The only way I can ever see him getting in is if he is voted in decades from now as a Senior Candidate. And I'm not even sure the chances are good for that. I feel that what Chris Babcock said about Barber being one of four players with 10,000 yards rushing and 5,000 yards receiving may be enough to get him in decades from now. However, since big rushing and receiving records haven't been enough to give Roger Craig voter support, I really don't see how it will be able to give Barber support anytime soon.

To me he's the exact opposite of a compiler - he quit while he was still putting up peak-level numbers, he didn't drag things out for several years to pad his stats.

Better to describe him as a late bloomer. The list of guys he couldn't beat out for the starting job in his first three years is pretty staggering -- Tyrone Wheatley, Charles Way, Gary Brown, Joe Montgomery, Leshon Johnson, Sean Bennett....

I tend to agree that he may get in as a senior in a few decades on the strength of his 10,000/5,000, but not before then.

Jeremy Crowhurst wrote: I tend to agree that he may get in as a senior in a few decades on the strength of his 10,000/5,000, but not before then.

Of course, that may depend on how exclusive the 10,000/5,000 club is at that time.
Once 1,000 yard seasons were a benchmark for "greatness" now they are not unusual.

JuggernautJ wrote:

Jeremy Crowhurst wrote: I tend to agree that he may get in as a senior in a few decades on the strength of his 10,000/5,000, but not before then.

Of course, that may depend on how exclusive the 10,000/5,000 club is at that time.
Once 1,000 yard seasons were a benchmark for "greatness" now they are not unusual.

There's also the question of how meaningful this kind of "club" is. It's not unusual for someone (sometimes a sportswriter) to come up with some kind of "club" to clump a non-HoFer he wants to call attention to with whichever elite player(s) might also fit the conceit.

A good example is the supposed rarified air players who get 30 sacks and 30 INTs reach. Only Ray Lewis and Rodney Harrison have done this, but how big a deal this is -- I don't know. I'm not even convinced it's significant in any way. Heck, Adrian Wilson got within shouting distance of this (27 INTs, 25.5 sacks).

One sees this kind of thing frequently in BBHoF arguments as well.

bachslunch wrote:

JuggernautJ wrote:

Jeremy Crowhurst wrote:One sees this kind of thing frequently in BBHoF arguments as well.

"He's the only guy in major league history with X home runs, y doubles and z runs batted in!" This is also something agents like Scott Boras do to hype their clients as the Second Coming of some past legend. Most of the time, it just turns out to be a case of severe verbal diarrhea.

Rupert Patrick wrote:He peaked late, and he retired young while he was still healthy and still at it's peak. But I think the thing that hurt Barber's HOF chances the most was that the Giants won the Super Bowl the next season without him. If Tiki had posted another 1,600 yard season and the Giants had won the Super Bowl and he would have walked away like Strahan did, he probably would have gone into Canton. But he retired because he wanted to go into broadcasting and become the next big thing, and he didn't. Oddly, Michael Strahan did become the next big thing in broadcasting and today is all over the place hosting this and that and has become a household name. I think Tiki comes up a little short for the HOF.

Agreed, and Barber later realized his mistake, and tried a comeback with Miami. He was so great after the age of 30, it was strange how he decided to just walk away. With numerous strong candidates in both the regular selection and veterans section, I doubt Barber ever gets in.

L.C. Greenwood wrote:

Rupert Patrick wrote:He peaked late, and he retired young while he was still healthy and still at it's peak. But I think the thing that hurt Barber's HOF chances the most was that the Giants won the Super Bowl the next season without him. If Tiki had posted another 1,600 yard season and the Giants had won the Super Bowl and he would have walked away like Strahan did, he probably would have gone into Canton. But he retired because he wanted to go into broadcasting and become the next big thing, and he didn't. Oddly, Michael Strahan did become the next big thing in broadcasting and today is all over the place hosting this and that and has become a household name. I think Tiki comes up a little short for the HOF.

Agreed, and Barber later realized his mistake, and tried a comeback with Miami. He was so great after the age of 30, it was strange how he decided to just walk away. With numerous strong candidates in both the regular selection and veterans section, I doubt Barber ever gets in.

Even at the time he retired, he said it was because he wanted to get into television. It wasn't because he was injured, or he had lost the desire, but because he wanted to become a TV star, which was something we really hadn't seen since the retirement of Jim Brown, who wanted to do movies, but in the case of Brown, he had little left to prove, and held virtually every NFL record he could possibly hold, and probably needed a new challenge. The fact that Tiki hasn't made the final 15 since he retired (as far as I can remember) in the HOF balloting is not a good sign, and he doesn't really have any signature moments about his career that people remember other than he retired to jump to TV and flopped.

On the other hand, his twin brother Ronde is probably a much stronger HOF candidate.