Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

L.C. Greenwood wrote: Another SB win, and I don't know how you keep him out of Canton, given the overall record.

Mention the name Mike Shanahan?

"The Cowher Era" might have been a decent topic.

There is no "Cowher/Tomlin era" - except as it might be compared to the second game of a double-header.
Each has its own body and set of statistics.
Bill Cowher is a man - cast in the Mike Ditka mold only somewhat less vocal.
Tomlin was best described by Terry Bradshaw - a cheerleader and not one that should be allowed near a microphone.
He inherited Cowher's success and has done nothing but play with the toy. There has been no Steeler growth initiated
by Tomlin.
He will serve himself well if he has laid in a good supply of Charmin. He needs it. He surely soiled himself with his "coaching" versus the master and will be watching the Super Bowl and helping get criminal charges reduced against his coaches and players. Or did the Rooneys do that?

Meanwhile, the embarrassment that was the Packers will always be remembered as the final act in the Georgia Dome - or - Rodgers' folly.

Bryan wrote:I view the 'era' as three distinct parts.

The majority of the Cowher era was like the 1970's Rams...some great talent, a nice pipeline of draft picks, but the ever-changing QB position kind of held them back. I guess their performance against the Cowboys in the SB was kind of like the Rams in SB XIV, too. Two playoff failures that stand out to me are an early 90's home loss to a wild-card Bills team...the Steelers were loaded with talent and I think lost 24-3 and where never in the game...and the AFC Championship loss to a mediocre Chargers team. That was very-70's Rams-like.

The end of the Cowher era and the start of the Tomlin era featured the best Steeler teams that were well-rounded. Getting Roethlisberger put them over the top in some sense, and this is when they won their Super Bowls.

The recent Tomlin era the Steelers have not had the great players on defense. They will always be competitive with Roethlisberger, but they are not an elite team. This year, the Steelers weren't even going to make the postseason until a late-season close win over the Ravens. The Patriots were 14-2 and had the best defense in the NFL.

Yes, it "was very-70's Rams like."

He doesn't scheme them up - as accurately identified by a prior poster, they know Brady/Belichick destroy their scheme yet did nothing about it.

Donovan McNabb basically said yesterday on First Take that the Steelers were a 3-4, Cover 3 team that really couldn't change what they did. Is that really true?

They looked pretty good against the Steelers on defense. Antonio Brown didn't do anything. The Patriots scored more points in 2015 and gave up 65 more points, so I think the improvements the Pats have made on defense in 2016 are tangible.

They did well against Brown, but other people had chances to step up, and they didn't. Plus, the play calling was bad. For example, on 3rd and 1 on their first drive and at the goal line (near the end of the 2nd quarter), they should have let Ben do a QB sneak both times.

BD Sullivan wrote:

L.C. Greenwood wrote: Another SB win, and I don't know how you keep him out of Canton, given the overall record.

Mention the name Mike Shanahan?

Shanahan had a great start during his first six years, but just 115-109 over the last 14 seasons. And it those last 14, just one conference title appearance.

Don't really see the 70s Rams comparison, since that group only reached one SB, and had a musical chairs situation at QB. Steelers do have some young, talented defensive players, but the scheme must be more flexible against the Pats. Of course, if Big Ben does retire early, that changes the picture completely.

7DnBrnc53 wrote:

He doesn't scheme them up - as accurately identified by a prior poster, they know Brady/Belichick destroy their scheme yet did nothing about it.

Donovan McNabb basically said yesterday on First Take that the Steelers were a 3-4, Cover 3 team that really couldn't change what they did. Is that really true?

Since the era of free-agency teams are not what they once were (IMHO).
Teams used to practice together for years, season after season, on complex defensive schemes and execution.
Now, with new players coming and going every year teams are limited to getting the best players affordable and plugging them into a basic scheme and going from there.
If they have the chance to grow and adjust over the course of a season they do but for the most part, they start anew each season... with the basics.
Few teams are given the luxury of continuity that is required to build the teamwork needed for great (not to mention good) Defense.

It might be Belichick's secret of success is finding players who are not necessarily the "best" at their position but rather smart enough to learn multiple defenses quickly and athletic enough to "do their jobs" within those defenses.

I know from (sandlot) experience that playing together for decades gave the Juggernauts a huge advantage over teams with far more "talent" than we had (in our advancing age).
Part of that was being able to adapt and change defenses on the spur of the moment. And that came from experience.

If I went into a huddle on 3rd and long (I called the defenses and played strong side 'backer) and said "Three man line with Sam (me) blitzing and a diamond backfield" everyone knew exactly what their responsibility was... and almost everyone knew the responsibility of every teammate... (I'm not too sure of one particular defensive end who seemed to not know much other than "point and go").
I do not see that kind of coordination in most of the NFL (amazingly).

Other than the passing of the baton, there is little to link Bill Cowher and Mike Tomlin.
Most people with a lick of sense noticed the lack of preparation that left Pittsburgh flatfooted, frustrated and flabbergasted.
Apparently Tomlin's words are now subject to proofreading and the locker room antics edited for vulgarity.
If the Lombardi Trophy was like the Stanley Cup, the current Steelers would have seen it for the last time.

While Dupree surely didn’t intend to point a finger at coaching, his explanation points a finger generally toward a place where coaching is one of the reasons for the lack of preparation for a no-huddle attack and for the inability to adjust quickly on the fly to the tactics the Patriots were employing. Only so much of that failure can be blamed on execution; at some point, the quality of the coaching is called into question.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... s-offense/

jeckle_and_heckle wrote:Other than the passing of the baton, there is little to link Bill Cowher and Mike Tomlin.

I'm with you on it being odd to combine Cowher & Tomlin into one era but to note another 'link', Dick LeBeau.

Which it probably should be noted that Tomlin has never really ran 'his' defense as HC of the Steelers. Totally different personnel and scheme from what he came up with in the NFL. Tomlin's Steelers defense was never his, it was LeBeau's. And now it's essentially the "Steelers defense", as opposed to Tomlin's defense.

Doesn't give him a pass, but I've never really thought of him as the x's and o's type. He's in the "motivator" category of HC's, and he's got a decent track record of getting guys to play for him. Remember - before 'we' pile on too much - that in 10 seasons as a Head Coach he's never had a losing record, he's made the playoffs 7 out of 10 years, got to two Super Bowl's and won a Super Bowl. Also, this alleged disaster of a season that's spawning the comments ended with the Steelers as the 2nd best team in the AFC. So 'we' shouldn't go too far in one direction just because 'he' can't beat an organization that's been the best over the past decade and a half.

That said, and I don't like to speculate, for coaches of his style the message could be getting stale and players could be tuning him out. Possible, and likely down the road if not now.

On the other hand, I don't really think the sky is falling in Pittsburgh. They won 13 games this season. They aren't the Browns.

Reaser wrote: On the other hand, I don't really think the sky is falling in Pittsburgh.

Depends on what your goal is.

If your goal is to win 13 games and not be the Browns, then the sky is not falling. Lose an AFC Championship game, go home, smoke your pipe, content to be pretty darn good and, eh, not the Browns.

But guess what? When the Patriots lose an AFC Championship game they DO believe thy sky is falling. Did you see the way Bill Belichick looked at the AFC Championship trophy? Like they handed him a steaming chunk of toenail cheese.

The Broncos fired John Fox for losing Super Bowls and playoff games.

If Brown played for the Patriots and did what he did, he probably would not have started or even played in the game, and there's a good chance he'd find himself on another team next year.

If Tomlin coached in Denver, he'd be out of a job today.

For the great teams, it's Super Bowl or bust, baby.

jeckle_and_heckle wrote:

Reaser wrote: On the other hand, I don't really think the sky is falling in Pittsburgh.

Depends on what your goal is.

If your goal is to win 13 games and not be the Browns, then the sky is not falling. Lose an AFC Championship game, go home, smoke your pipe, content to be pretty darn good and, eh, not the Browns.

But guess what? When the Patriots lose an AFC Championship game they DO believe thy sky is falling. Did you see the way Bill Belichick looked at the AFC Championship trophy? Like they handed him a steaming chunk of toenail cheese.

The Broncos fired John Fox for losing Super Bowls and playoff games.

If Brown played for the Patriots and did what he did, he probably would not have started or even played in the game, and there's a good chance he'd find himself on another team next year.

If Tomlin coached in Denver, he'd be out of a job today.

For the great teams, it's Super Bowl or bust, baby.

Here's the thing about Fox, though: When Denver hired him in 2011 (after Gary Kubiak, Elway's first choice, was unavailable), he was coming into a locker room that had been poisoned by that two year old McDaniels (who graduated from the Belichick School of Public Relations). Fox was the opposite of that. Maybe Elway just brought him in to change the atmosphere for a few years while expectations were low, and then bring someone better in to take Denver to the next level.

However, a funny thing happened: A man named Tim Tebow led the Broncos to an 7-4 record after a 1-4 start, and they backed into the AFC West Title. Then, for an encore, this inaccurate passer led them to (gasp) a playoff win over Tomlin's Steelers. That started to raise the expectations again in a city that has seen a lot of playoff football in their history.

However, nobody was thinking about what was coming next.

On March 19, 2012, things got real in the Mile High City. The Sheriff himself, Peyton Manning, walked through that door. And, at that point, I believe that John Fox was no longer the right man to be the coach of the Broncos.

Now, Elway kept him on, and they won 13 games and got HFA, but I think that Elway was upset at Fox because he didn't try to go for the win at the end of regulation in the Baltimore game.

Then, the next year, Fox rides #18 to another 13-3 record and a Super Bowl, but he doesn't have his team prepared well at all for anything, including the crowd noise. The Broncos fall 43-8, and Elway becomes increasingly happy with Fox. That may have led to the playoff loss the next year, and Fox's decision to throw in the towel and leave for Chicago after that game. He isn't the guy that can meet high expectations. Also, after his heart problem during the 13 season, I don't know why he is coaching anymore.