Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

JohnTurney wrote:

Heh. Fit the word "disaster" in there somewhere and you've got him down.

I had forgotten that players like Lawrence Taylor had signed "futures" contracts with the USFL. Anybody know what other NFL vets signed with, but never played in, the USFL?

FYI, this article was from Jan. 2, 1984.

As I've said before about the USFL, I think if the thing that killed them was the 1984 expansion. They should have instead focused on the weaker teams in the 12-team league, and contracted a couple of them to get down to 8 or 10 teams to ensure good ownership and solid ticket sales in all markets, and then went forward with those same teams and markets for 4-5 years in the spring and let them build and mature and then you would probably have teams that would be close to NFL quality paying close to NFL salaries. At that point, the USFL would have a major TV network locked up, maybe two, and they might then consider expanding by one or maybe two teams, but only after a careful evaluation. At this point, I think the NFL would have considered a merger, as the USFL had a number of NFL quality players and driving up the salaries and were battling the NFL for the talent (and winning) and had solid franchises and had proven it was not going away. In short, they should have followed the model of the American Football League.

I don't know what kind of role if any that Trump may have played in the expansion, but as a sports historian I have never seen a league expand by six teams in one season like the USFL did in 1984, and when I saw that, I knew the league was going to fail.

Rupert Patrick wrote: I don't know what kind of role if any that Trump may have played in the expansion, but as a sports historian I have never seen a league expand by six teams in one season like the USFL did in 1984, and when I saw that, I knew the league was going to fail.

Well, there was the National Hockey League 50 years ago.... but I agree, the decision to increase the number of USFL teams by 50% after the first year was foolish. It was a "get rich quick" idea, and so was gambling everything in hopes of winning $2.7 billion in a lawsuit.

Mark L. Ford wrote:

Rupert Patrick wrote: I don't know what kind of role if any that Trump may have played in the expansion, but as a sports historian I have never seen a league expand by six teams in one season like the USFL did in 1984, and when I saw that, I knew the league was going to fail.

Well, there was the National Hockey League 50 years ago.... but I agree, the decision to increase the number of USFL teams by 50% after the first year was foolish. It was a "get rich quick" idea, and so was gambling everything in hopes of winning $2.7 billion in a lawsuit.

I forgot about the NHL, but in that case they were an established league who was long overdue for expansion and went into four markets who were ready for an NHL team - Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, St. Louis and the Twin Cities. Adding teams in the Bay area and LA made pro hockey a national game. But like you said, for a second year league with several teams with shaky financial situations adding six more teams is utter suicide.

Rupert Patrick wrote:

Mark L. Ford wrote:

Rupert Patrick wrote: I don't know what kind of role if any that Trump may have played in the expansion, but as a sports historian I have never seen a league expand by six teams in one season like the USFL did in 1984, and when I saw that, I knew the league was going to fail.

Well, there was the National Hockey League 50 years ago.... but I agree, the decision to increase the number of USFL teams by 50% after the first year was foolish. It was a "get rich quick" idea, and so was gambling everything in hopes of winning $2.7 billion in a lawsuit.

I forgot about the NHL, but in that case they were an established league who was long overdue for expansion and went into four markets who were ready for an NHL team - Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, St. Louis and the Twin Cities. Adding teams in the Bay area and LA made pro hockey a national game. But like you said, for a second year league with several teams with shaky financial situations adding six more teams is utter suicide.

St. Louis wasn't ready for an NHL team; they didn't even ask for one in the expansion process for 1967. The Wirtz family, who owned the Black Hawks, also owned the St. Louis Arena, so they forced the league to reject bids from Baltimore and Vancouver. St. Louis was announced as a new entry before there was an ownership group, and the Wirtzes dumped their decrepit albatross on the group they conned into becoming the new owners of the St. Louis team.

That said, St. Louis has down pretty well.

by Jeremy Crowhurst » Sun Feb 21, 2016 1:42 pm
"St. Louis wasn't ready for an NHL team; they didn't even ask for one in the expansion process for 1967. The Wirtz family, who owned the Black Hawks, also owned the St. Louis Arena, so they forced the league to reject bids from Baltimore and Vancouver..."

Ah, mais oui!
And a tip of the toque to the man who knows... Ay!

Jeremy Crowhurst wrote: St. Louis wasn't ready for an NHL team; they didn't even ask for one in the expansion process for 1967. The Wirtz family, who owned the Black Hawks, also owned the St. Louis Arena, so they forced the league to reject bids from Baltimore and Vancouver. St. Louis was announced as a new entry before there was an ownership group, and the Wirtzes dumped their decrepit albatross on the group they conned into becoming the new owners of the St. Louis team.

That said, St. Louis has down pretty well.

In the NHL, yes-- but the Arizona Cardinals, the Los Angeles Rams, the Baltimore Orioles and the Atlanta Hawks had to move from somewhere.

Evan wrote:I had forgotten that players like Lawrence Taylor had signed "futures" contracts with the USFL. Anybody know what other NFL vets signed with, but never played in, the USFL?

I remember it was a big deal that Cris Collinsworth signed a futures contract with the Tampa Bay Bandits but the league disbanded before he played for them. His Bengal teammate Dan Ross had signed a futures contract at the start of the USFL and actually played for the Breakers.

Bryan wrote:

Evan wrote:I had forgotten that players like Lawrence Taylor had signed "futures" contracts with the USFL. Anybody know what other NFL vets signed with, but never played in, the USFL?

I remember it was a big deal that Cris Collinsworth signed a futures contract with the Tampa Bay Bandits but the league disbanded before he played for them. His Bengal teammate Dan Ross had signed a futures contract at the start of the USFL and actually played for the Breakers.

Billy Sims was another. He was supposed to play for Houston (with Jim Kelly) and had signed with them before then signing with the Lions late in 1983. Naturally, the case went to court, where Sims claimed that his agent Jerry Argovitz (who also owned the Houston team) had misrepresented him in negotiations with the Lions. Whether or not it was true, it was a pretty blatant conflict of interest for Argovitz to be both agent and owner.

Lindy Infante was a coach who had signed a futures deal to become HC of the expansion Jacksonville Bulls after the 1983 Bengals season ended. Naturally, Paul Brown immediately fired him after he found out and actually filed a lawsuit claiming breach of contract.

In the case of Brian Sipe, he didn't sign a futures deal, but he was negotiating to join Trump's Generals during the 1983 season. It annoyed Sam Rutigliano enough that he benched Sipe in favor of Paul McDonald, giving some phony excuse of a "tired arm." Aft6er the season, Sipe signed with the Generals.