Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

I wouldn't know C.O. Brocato if he fell on me. Based on the fact his name was spelled different ways in this thread, I am assuming others aren't all that familiar with him either.

I am supposedly a good fan with some knowledge of NFL history. Does this mean I am really not all that knowledgeable or does it mean that C.O. is not quite THAT big of a deal?

bachslunch wrote:
Bucko Kilroy is an interesting candidate, kind of a Dick LeBeau type hybrid. He had a Hall of the Very Good career as a player and a just-okay GM career. Not sure I'd vote for him.

Took more of a look at Kilroy, and the LeBeau comparison seems apt.

As player: Kilroy is definitely Hall of the Very Good. Profile is 3/3/40s.

LeBeau is 0/3/none, also HotVG level.

As non-player: Kilroy had a long career as a scout and executive. Scout for Philadelphia 1960-61, Washington 1961-1964, Dallas 1965-1970. Not sure what impact he had. With the New England Patriots after that: 1971-1978 Director of Player Personnel, 1979-1982 General Manager, 1983-1993 Vice President, 1994-2006 Scout Consultant. The Pats ranged from bad to mediocre from 1971 until 1976, then good to excellent the next five years. They collapsed in 1981 and were mediocre until 1984, when they were good to excellent again for the next five years (including their first SB appearance). They then fell apart in 1989 and were bad until 1994, the year after Kilroy left as VP and became a scout again. In brief, a mixed record with some good highs and solid lows, though only one SB appearance with one loss. He is also credited with establishing the scouting combine (according to his NY Times obituary), which would seem to be a strong innovative plus.

LeBeau had a long career as a coach, most of it as an assistant or defensive coordinator. His reputation rests on his work with Pittsburgh, about one-third of his career. Another third of his career was spent in Cincinnati, where he was not so successful. The rest of his career was spent as a special teams or defensive backs coach. Again, a mixed record with good highs and solid lows. He is also credited with inventing the zone blitz defense, which can be seen as a strong innovative plus.

Does this combination make Kilroy a HoFer? Probably as much so as LeBeau, for whatever that's worth.

Bob Gill wrote:I still think this is a useless category. Will Dick Stockton be among the nominees next year?

I wouldn't have voted for Jerome Bettis, but he's a slam dunk compared to this list of finalists, except for Steve Sabol, who does have a legitimate case. It's like the made this whole category just for him. So we get one real contributor and then a string of nobodies because now it's mandatory -- and meanwhile the Al Wisterts and Lavern Dilwegs and Johnny Robinsons and all the rest can keep waiting.

Agreed that this category coming at the expense of some Senior slots is not a good thing, but I think it's a worthwhile idea otherwise. In past, we've had Contributor nominees spinning their wheels and clogging up the regular candidate pool (Pete Rozelle, George Young, Ralph Wilson, Art Modell, Paul Tagliabue, Eddie DeBartolo) with only two of these being elected. Those slots could have been used on players, some of whom might have gotten voted in with a few more times as finalist before falling into the Senior pool (Claude Humphrey, Randy Gradishar, Rayfield Wright, Cliff Harris). Some deserving players seem to need time to "marinate" as finalists before getting enough support to get elected (Harry Carson, Jack Youngblood, Don Maynard, Ron Yary) and more finalist tries might have helped guys like Gradishar and Harris or elected Humphrey and Wright without wasting Senior slots on them. There are also some deserving folks who didn't get a finalist chance until late in their eligibility and then got in (Joe DeLameilleure, Bobby Mitchell, Jimmy Johnson, Roger Wehrli, Rickey Jackson) -- and they might have gotten in sooner without the Contributors in the mix.

It was also going to take forever for folks like Ron Wolf and Bill Polian to be elected, and I'm all in favor of getting the best GM-types in (add Beathard, Young, and Brandt to that list). Adding coaches/assistant coaches would make this pool more competitive, which is fine by me.

BD Sullivan wrote:I'd go with Sabol and Brandt.

My thought exactly...in that order since only one gets elected this time around.

BD Sullivan wrote:I'd go with Sabol and Brandt.

I'm a Cowboy fan, and a I recognize his talent, but I wouldn't vote for him because he was very bad drafting in the 80s (aside for stealing Herschel Walker and Michael Irvin).