Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

I mostly agree with Bob, it's pretty serious, going straight to the integrity of the game. My understanding is that he never bet against his team, and there isn't any evidence -- or even any suggestion -- that he did anything less than try his best as manager. But it's still serious.

But nobody is suggesting that he go into the game as a manager. His playing career is obviously Hall-worthy. I see his candidacy as being less tarnished than the Black Sox, who cheated as players, and thus don't go in as players. His sin was as manager; should the Hall deny itself a part of its rightful history because of something he did after his playing career was over? It might be a little naive, but could they put "him" in the Hall of Fame, but bar him from the premises so that he's not a part of the ceremony and never gets to pay "himself" a visit?

The other thing worth noting is the suspension itself. He agreed to a permanent suspension (which, by rule, he could apply to have lifted after one year) as part of a negotiated settlement to litigation he had filed. In that respect his suspension is different that Howe's and Steinbrenner's, the next two "permanent" suspensions that were imposed. That strikes me as a relevant distinction, though I can't quite articulate why exactly....

Jeremy Crowhurst wrote:The other thing worth noting is the suspension itself. He agreed to a permanent suspension (which, by rule, he could apply to have lifted after one year) as part of a negotiated settlement to litigation he had filed. In that respect his suspension is different that Howe's and Steinbrenner's, the next two "permanent" suspensions that were imposed. That strikes me as a relevant distinction, though I can't quite articulate why exactly....

It is unknown why Rose agreed to the permanent suspension agreement, but it is a theory I've held that Commissioner Bart Giamatti had some sort of damning "smoking gun" evidence that Rose did not wish to become public and he chose to accept the permanent suspension and keeping this info secret as opposed to his fighting the suspension and having this evidence being revealed to the public. We'll probably never know if this occurred as Giamatti died suddenly a week after Rose accepted the agreement, but Faye Vincent and Bud Selig both refused to hear Rose's case. I read the Dowd Report and it is entirely possible that there was more information in the evidence file than what was included in the report.

It's about forgiveness. The only difference between Pete Rose and any of us is that his warts are more visible than ours.

If they let people back in the league who beat other people and killed other creatures in sadistic ways for sport, how do you not forgive Pete Rose?

Doesn't "lifetime" mean until you die? Not until you apologize.

John Grasso wrote:Doesn't "lifetime" mean until you die? Not until you apologize.

I thought he did. If he didn't, yes, you have to admit it first.

Veeshik_ya wrote:

John Grasso wrote:Doesn't "lifetime" mean until you die? Not until you apologize.

I thought he did. If he didn't, yes, you have to admit it first.

He did--15 years after the fact, and only as part of book that he was selling. In between, he continued to lie.

In baseball, who has killed someone and been let play in the league? Or in the HoF?

The main instance of violence is by Ty Cobb and at that time it wasn't considered a part of the game to be punished for. Gambling puts the sport at risk. They once suspended Durocher for consorting with gamblers.

Yes, we are moving towards a time when fixing games will probably be excused. That is problematic.

But not yet. Rose is a crybaby. If they can't induct into the Hall of Fame players who never did anything illegal at the time (such as McGwire) or have never been shown to do anything (Piazza), or even the best player ever (Bonds), how could they ever put someone who was betting on his own games in?

Rose knowingly and willingly spit in the eye of baseball by betting on games. He broke the queen mother of rules, the rule that is posted in every locker room.

All of his records are acknowledged in Cooperstown so it's not like he doesn't exist there. It's just that he should never have a plaque there.