Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

Interesting question: what makes a HoF referee? Is there any NFL equivalent to Bill Klem? Or a HoF announcer (if it's not as utterly silly an idea as I think it is -- Howard Cosell, Don Meredith, and Pat Summerall? Ugh...)

Agreed with all here that deserving Seniors belong in before any such folks.

Bob Gill wrote:I don't like this category at all. First it was owners, then general managers, and now we're talking about referees and announcers? People watch football games for the players, and I understand the point of honoring the great coaches. But beyond that, I don't think the Hall of Fame should have more than a handful of owners who really determined the shape of the NFL (Halas, Mara, Marshall, Hunt) and a few landmark commissioners (Carr, Rozelle, maybe Bell).

Look at the names mentioned in this thread already: Pat Summerall, Al Michaels, Jim Tunney. Nothing against any of these guys, but the fact that anyone would even consider them while the likes of Lavern Dilweg, Al Wistert, Del Shofner, Kenny Easley and Sterling Sharpe are outside looking in is just ludicrous.

I agree with the sentiment, but oh man, when you say "the fact that anyone...", you're just ignoring reality. I think it's not unreasonable for anyone (not in the PFRA) to say that Howard Cosell did a whole lot more for the game of football than Lavern Dilweg, and is more deserving of induction.

Yeah, to me, the category really should include head (and probably assistant) coaches going forward, and after the established schedule finishes in a few years, you could have one nominee in the category per year. There are several former head coaches besides Dungy (who probably will be inducted as a modern-era candidate in next year's class), Coryell, and Johnson who deserve consideration, like Bill Cowher, Mike Holmgren, Buddy Parker, Dan Reeves, and yes, even Chuck Knox and Marty Schottenheimer. The mastermind up in Foxborough will be there at some point. Plus, look at some other guys coaching right now who have had a good amount of success up to this point: Mike McCarthy, Mike Tomlin, John Harbaugh, Andy Reid, Tom Coughlin, and Sean Payton. All of them look to be on a good track toward eventually being considered for Canton (Coughlin is probably already there). You're going to have more than enough of them to create a good queue for this category once the GMs, owners, officials, etc. inevitably run out.

Clark Schaughnessy, Joe Collier ..

Bob Gill wrote:I don't like this category at all. First it was owners, then general managers, and now we're talking about referees and announcers? People watch football games for the players, and I understand the point of honoring the great coaches. But beyond that, I don't think the Hall of Fame should have more than a handful of owners who really determined the shape of the NFL (Halas, Mara, Marshall, Hunt) and a few landmark commissioners (Carr, Rozelle, maybe Bell).

Look at the names mentioned in this thread already: Pat Summerall, Al Michaels, Jim Tunney. Nothing against any of these guys, but the fact that anyone would even consider them while the likes of Lavern Dilweg, Al Wistert, Del Shofner, Kenny Easley and Sterling Sharpe are outside looking in is just ludicrous.

I think the problem is two-fold: one, the term "contributor" is too vague...do we enshrine Archie Manning's wife for giving birth to Peyton and Eli? Two, I think its difficult to judge "contributors" when they are on the same ballot as players.

Maybe I am in the minority, but I am all for having contributors in the Hall of Fame. I think the Hall of Fame does a terrible job in recognizing the excellent long-time assistant coaches and coordinators of the NFL. Its like they don't even exist. One of the most interesting parts of TJ Troup's book about the 1950's is his simple listing of assistant coaches for each team...that info was brand new to me. There should be a spot in the Hall of Fame for people like Howard Mudd and Buddy Ryan.

The solution is the opposite of what the NFL has recently installed...instead of adding mandatory "contributor" spots to the current ballot, completely remove the "contributors" from the ballot. Have their selection process be separate, with their place in the HOF being on a lower tier than that of the players. Maybe draw from the baseball HOF and have a section of the football HOF be devoted to "contributors". If you want to be more exact, perhaps divide up the contributors into further categories of administrators, referees, assistant coaches, media (writers/announcers/Sabols).

I am torn on the category. On one hand, contributors are mostly overlooked in favor of players. It is good that they will get some recognition. However, I fear that they will be lowering the bar with candidates in the near future. In my opinion, there are a handful of contributors that should be considered. The fact that there are two spots for contributors in select years means that they will be lowering the bar sooner rather than later.

I also do not like that they are taking spots from the seniors the first few years, but we have already covered that topic.

I don't like this category. I do like the seniors category. I think that two or three seniors should be elected every year. Give them a chance to enjoy it before they die. There is absolutely no reason in my opinion why Mike Curtis, Johnny Robinson, Otis Taylor, Harvey Martin, Cliff Harris, Drew Pearson and Ken Anderson are not in Canton.

Joe Zagorski

bachslunch wrote:Interesting question: what makes a HoF referee? Is there any NFL equivalent to Bill Klem? Or a HoF announcer (if it's not as utterly silly an idea as I think it is -- Howard Cosell, Don Meredith, and Pat Summerall? Ugh...)

Agreed with all here that deserving Seniors belong in before any such folks.

Something to look upon is that referees and umpires are currently enshrined in the Baseball, Basketball and Hockey Hall of Fames (interestingly, Cal Hubbard, the Pro Football Hall of Fame tackle who played in the NFL from 1927-1936 was later an AL umpire from 1936-1951 and supervisor of umpires from 1953-1969, and is the only person enshrined in both the Baseball and the Pro Football Hall of Fames).

In Palm Springs for a conference right now. Lots of sidewalk stars to commemorate people ... Alan Ladd, Elvis, Liberace, Lauren Bacall, etc. But I have also seen two listed as "plastic surgeons." Which makes me think of where the contributor category could easily go before deserving players get in a seniors.

If I had a vote to name a contribuitor (beside Steve Sabol), and although that I am interested in referees and their fellow officials, I would chose Sam Spence, I enjoy his music and I know that thousands of fans also.

But seriously, I am convinced that Art McNally will be elected the next time. He is the Dick LeBeau of officiating (like LeBeau, he has been in the league in some capacity since 1959) and is credited to have modernize and consolidate pro officiating (remember, the use of microphones by referees and instant replay were born under him).