NFL will again revisit most unfair rule in the game

[SixtiesFan]

I don't see anything wrong with this rule.

[luckyshow]

What that stupid Jet lineman did is dangerous, that is why it is automatic first down. Probably should just be a 10 yard penalty. Same result in this instance.

Have they changed the rule that a defensive penalty in last two minutes of a half results in the clock being run down a certain amount?

[JWL]

What that stupid Jet lineman did is dangerous, that is why it is automatic first down. Probably should just be a 10 yard penalty. Same result in this instance.

Everyone on the forum could probably argue about whether a particular penalty should be 5 yards or 10 till the cows come home and what Coples did was wrong and not safe but to see 4th down and 16 suddenly become 1st and 10 for that was egregious to me. Maybe only me, though, I don't know.

If find it similar to a right tackle being called for holding when the play was run off the left side of the line and the right tackle only held the defender for a second and it had no impact on the play. We have all seen this type of penalty. We have also all heard "Holding could be called on every play." Considering holding could be called on every play, Mr. Referee, how 'bout you keep the flag in your pants on this 1-yard run that was not impacted one iota by the hold on the other side of the line?

It is a difficult sport to officiate and everything happens so fast and the rule book is intricate and all that but some penalties make you want to pull your hair out.

[rhickok1109]

I don't see anything wrong with this rule.

I don't, either. I see no unfairness at all.

[65 toss power trap]

I have always thought the rule they put in not allowing forward fumbles under 2 minutes, was a ridiculous rule. Maybe this was just an earlier ridiculous rule for a similar reason. Anywhere else on the field, (not under 2 minutes), the ball would stay with the ball carrier's team at point the ball went out of bounds.

Couple of corrections on the rules:

Forward fumbles are allowed at any point in the game -- the Holy Roller Rule does not pertain to forward fumbles, but recoveries by a teammate of the fumbler. A backward fumble after the 2:00 warning or on fourth down is still a dead ball unless the fumbler picks up the ball.

With the forward fumble out of bounds, that always reverts back to the spot of the fumble at all times in the game (unless it involves either end zone). The clock does not stop, since the dead-ball spot is retroactively applied to an in-bounds spot.

An intentional forward fumble is a forward pass. If it is beyond the line of scrimmage (or if there is no line of scrimmage), it is an illegal forward pass and a loss of down. If it is behind the line of scrimmage, it can be intentional grounding. Either of these fouls will be a 10-second runoff in the final minute of the half.

Now to the fumble/touchback rule:

This is the rule of impetus in the NFL. When the ball enters either end zone, one team is charged with providing the impetus to cause the ball to go in the end zone. Impetus is charged to the offense/kicking team, unless a defensive player bats, muffs a ball at/nearly at rest, or illegally kicks the ball. When the ball is dead in the end zone, there are three possible rulings: touchdown, touchback, or safety. (There is also the momentum exception, but I'm trying not to overcomplicate.) Because the offense is charged with the impetus, it is a touchback, just as a kickoff or punt would be ruled. The same fumble in the offense's end zone is a safety.

If the ball reverts back to the spot of the fumble, Leon Lett is not the goat of Super Bowl XXVII. Cowboys have 1st and goal at the 1. That doesn't seem right.

[rhickok1109]

I have always thought the rule they put in not allowing forward fumbles under 2 minutes, was a ridiculous rule. Maybe this was just an earlier ridiculous rule for a similar reason. Anywhere else on the field, (not under 2 minutes), the ball would stay with the ball carrier's team at point the ball went out of bounds.

Couple of corrections on the rules:

Forward fumbles are allowed at any point in the game -- the Holy Roller Rule does not pertain to forward fumbles, but recoveries by a teammate of the fumbler. A backward fumble after the 2:00 warning or on fourth down is still a dead ball unless the fumbler picks up the ball.

With the forward fumble out of bounds, that always reverts back to the spot of the fumble at all times in the game (unless it involves either end zone). The clock does not stop, since the dead-ball spot is retroactively applied to an in-bounds spot.

An intentional forward fumble is a forward pass. If it is beyond the line of scrimmage (or if there is no line of scrimmage), it is an illegal forward pass and a loss of down. If it is behind the line of scrimmage, it can be intentional grounding. Either of these fouls will be a 10-second runoff in the final minute of the half.

Now to the fumble/touchback rule:

This is the rule of impetus in the NFL. When the ball enters either end zone, one team is charged with providing the impetus to cause the ball to go in the end zone. Impetus is charged to the offense/kicking team, unless a defensive player bats, muffs a ball at/nearly at rest, or illegally kicks the ball. When the ball is dead in the end zone, there are three possible rulings: touchdown, touchback, or safety. (There is also the momentum exception, but I'm trying not to overcomplicate.) Because the offense is charged with the impetus, it is a touchback, just as a kickoff or punt would be ruled. The same fumble in the offense's end zone is a safety.

If the ball reverts back to the spot of the fumble, Leon Lett is not the goat of Super Bowl XXVII. Cowboys have 1st and goal at the 1. That doesn't seem right.

That's an excellent summary of the rules and the situation in question. The rule about a fumble through the end zone is quite logical and, as I posted earlier, I don't see anything unfair about it.

I think perhaps the anomaly is the rule that awards possession to the offense when a fumble goes out of bounds. In most other goal sports, including basketball, soccer, lacrosse, team handball, et al., the possession is awarded to the team that didn't cause the ball to go out of bounds. (That also used to be the rule in Rugby, the immediate ancestor of American football, but it has since been replaced by the lineout.)

Changing that rule seems to me much more logical and sensible (and even fairer) than changing the rule concerning a fumble that goes through the end zone.

[Bryan]

Impetus seemed to come into play last night...or not...

[rhickok1109]

Impetus seemed to come into play last night...or not...

I wondered about that play when I saw it but I mistakenly thought that the bat (if it was a bat) should result in a safety. I didn't realize that it's illegal to bat the ball in either direction when it's in an end zone; I thought the rule only prohibited batting the ball forward (i.e., toward the opponent's goal line).

As Dean Blandino made clear this morning, the illegal bat calls for a 5-yard penalty. The ball would have gone back to the Lions inside the Seattle 1-yard line.

[oldecapecod11]

It is truly a shame when the best-played portion of the game - the Lions closing minutes drive - is negated by the stupidity of a game official.
Obviously, the nfl would rather have Seattle IN the play-offs rather than just missing by a half-game or so.
Meanwhile, if that had occurrred in Foxborough, someone would be whining about wind machines or special bouncing balls.
We might even have been looking at "Batgate."
Give Detroit a lot of credit - they didn't emulate the Tomlin whine. No crying towels in the Motor City - just an 0-4 record.

[Reaser]

We might even have been looking at "Batgate."

It's already known as "Batgate", that's been flying around since last night, ha.

The word or words I said instantly when Wright tapped it out probably can't be posted, but I knew the rule (in the endzone) though I had no clue how it was marked off (yards, etc) - I kept waiting for them to announce the penalty and what would happen and instead the game just moved on. Ridiculous with the official standing on the goalline looking right at it, also.

Great play by Chancellor though, and Johnson shouldn't be so easily let off the hook for fumbling there either (don't want to lose possession, don't fumble.)

One thing to remember, the game wasn't over on this play and wouldn't have been an auto-Lions win had the flag been thrown, which is for some reason what a lot of people are assuming. They still would have had to score (not as easy as the people who are pretending the Lions have the best running game in the league are acting like) and there was time left, could have just as easily settled for a FG and went to OT, could have been a turnover on the next play, and so on. I don't like guessing (what-ifs) - what happened, happened. Officials blew yet another call (lets act surprised) and the end of the game was ruined. At least it gives the networks something to talk about non-stop for the next week . . .