Allie must have had a healthy ego from taking three teams to the title game in his first three years. Of course, all three came up short, so you would think that might humble him somewhat.SixtiesFan wrote:Tarkenton said "Allie Sherman made a mistake, albeit an honest one, that overcomes most coaches from time to time. He felt that it is coaching that makes great football teams, not great personnel."
Question re RB Phil King
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BD Sullivan
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Re: Question re RB Phil King
Re: Question re RB Phil King
Phil King seems to have been the forgotten man in all that was going on. I don't think that Tarkenton even mentioned the King trade in "Broken Patterns," and he did mention just about all of the other trades at the time. He even wrote that Erich Barnes was traded to Cleveland and Barnes and Modzelewski helped galvanize the Browns to help win the NFL title in 1964, even though Barnes wasn't traded to Cleveland until 1965.
Yes, the trades did hurt, but I think that the Giants were destined to fall in 1964 with or without the trades. Maybe just not so fast and so hard. A tip off was the 38 to 7 loss in the opener to a not very good Philadelphia team. The offense had problems as well as the defense.
Yes, the trades did hurt, but I think that the Giants were destined to fall in 1964 with or without the trades. Maybe just not so fast and so hard. A tip off was the 38 to 7 loss in the opener to a not very good Philadelphia team. The offense had problems as well as the defense.
Re: Question re RB Phil King
Saban wrote:Phil King seems to have been the forgotten man in all that was going on. I don't think that Tarkenton even mentioned the King trade in "Broken Patterns," and he did mention just about all of the other trades at the time. He even wrote that Erich Barnes was traded to Cleveland and Barnes and Modzelewski helped galvanize the Browns to help win the NFL title in 1964, even though Barnes wasn't traded to Cleveland until 1965.
Yes, the trades did hurt, but I think that the Giants were destined to fall in 1964 with or without the trades. Maybe just not so fast and so hard. A tip off was the 38 to 7 loss in the opener to a not very good Philadelphia team. The offense had problems as well as the defense.
Oops, wrong again. Tarkenton did mention the King trade. The book says that "Running back Phil King went to the Steelers for an inconsequential draft choice. Phil later went to Minnesota and had his third-best year in pro ball."
Sorry about that. Early stages maybe.
Re: Question re RB Phil King
The Giants drafted Looney and Steve Thurlow 1 and 2 in 1964, so they were clearly looking for some new things at running back. The Dick James trade made three. Joe Morrison and Alex Webster came back, that was five. Charlie Killett, a rookie who played briefly the prior year, was already cut. The Giants wanted to keep rookies Ernie Wheelwright and Clarence Childs. Wheelwright was a fullback, and Childs had returned a couple of kickoffs for touchdowns. Even with Looney out, they had six RB, and no room for King or McElhenny.BD Sullivan wrote:King was traded the same day the Giants dealt Joe Don Looney to the Colts, and the same day they cut Hugh McElhenny and Glynn Grffing. I believe they got a third rounder for him from the Steelers in the '65 Draft to select QB Bob Scheikert, who decided to go with the Jets--even though the Jets drafted Namath and Huarte ahead of him.
Wheelwright played for a few years. Childs had some luck returning kicks, but switched to defense after 1964. King had three more years left, but only one with significant playing time. Trading King was probably the right move at that point.
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BD Sullivan
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Re: Question re RB Phil King
'Until he made a comeback with The Mean Machine.Jay Z wrote:BD Sullivan wrote:The Giants wanted to keep rookies Ernie Wheelwright and Clarence Childs. Wheelwright was a fullback ... played for a few years.
Re: Question re RB Phil King
I have read quite a few times that the Giants didn't have very good drafts during their glory years of Sam Huff, Gifford, Webster, Modzelewski, etc., but they did get a good one in the first round in 1962, IMO. That would be linebacker Jerry Hillebrand. Jerry didn't play in 1962, but even though he wasn't listed as a starter in 1963 at left linebacker, he made 5 interceptions that year.
Hillebrand is listed as a starter in 1965 at middle linebacker and in 1966 at left linebacker for the Giants, but asked to be traded after that season. He went to the Cards for 1967 and finished his career at Pittsburgh where he was a starting linebacker for three seasons.
Hillebrand is listed as a starter in 1965 at middle linebacker and in 1966 at left linebacker for the Giants, but asked to be traded after that season. He went to the Cards for 1967 and finished his career at Pittsburgh where he was a starting linebacker for three seasons.