History of Scouting

[fgoodwin]

Have you guys seen this?

http://www.nfl.com/historyofscouting

I'm sure many of you already know these stories, but it was an eye opener for me. I agree scouts s/b in the HOF. And the closing Dick Donlin story is priceless!

[Saban1]

I read where the Cowboys were ahead of everyone in scouting during the 1960's and 1970's and that is how they acquired so much talent during those days. The owner, Clint Murchison, was very wealthy and let the profits go back into the team . GM Tex Schramm ran the team any way that he wanted to, and used much of the money for scouting. I read someplace that Dallas spent more money on scouting than any other team.

I read this about Roger Staubach. In the 1963 draft, after the first few rounds, the cream had been picked and most of the Cowboys people had gone home. Schramm stayed and in the 10th round, he noticed that Roger Staubach still had not been taken, probably because he was obligated to serve 6 years active duty with the navy. Schramm drafted him for Dallas.

Staubach used to take leave in the summer and show up in Dallas training camps. After the navy, Staubach became the Cowboy's starting QB in 1971, and the rest is history.

[BD Sullivan]

Schramm had used Gil Brandt as a part-time scout when Tex was GM for the Rams after a plug from Elroy Hirsch. Schramm was behind the push to have a computer aid with scouting, with Brandt schmoozing with as many coaches both large and small to find out information or get tips on many of the small college players they ended up drafting.

[coachtj]

....all teams that won had talent(we all know that); question is where did the talent come from? who knew what about the players selected, or allowed to come to camp? and then the right place at right time aspect. eddie kotal of the rams and some of his scouting stories were fascinating to read about(especially gene "the big daddy"). how about a favorite scouting story from everyone at the forum?

[Rupert Patrick]

....all teams that won had talent(we all know that); question is where did the talent come from? who knew what about the players selected, or allowed to come to camp? and then the right place at right time aspect. eddie kotal of the rams and some of his scouting stories were fascinating to read about(especially gene "the big daddy"). how about a favorite scouting story from everyone at the forum?

My favorite scouting story was about the Steelers scouting Jack Lambert at Kent State, and after watching him play or work out, Dan Rooney approached Lambert in the parking lot. Rooney asked Lambert to do a quick work out, and among other things, how fast he could hit the ground to apply a tackle. Lambert did so, and with it being an gravel parking lot, when Lambert came back up he had bits of gravel sticking to his face. Rooney was sold on Lambert.

[oldecapecod11]

by coachtj » Thu Mar 19, 2015 1:55 pm
"...how about a favorite scouting story from everyone at the forum?"

New York Football Giants version...
It's just a short tale of "scouting" from the heart rather than from the pine bench of a set of practice field bleachers.
For years, the New York Giants had a scouting "Poole."
No; it's not a misspelling. The Poole family of Mississippi kept sharp eyes peeled to make certain the Giants always were aware of the cream of the Mississippi crop.
It sure didn't hurt that three Poole brothers all played for the Giants - Barney, Ray, and Jim - better known as "Buster" after beginning their careers at the University of Mississippi. It also speaks to the familial ties the Mara ownership developed over the years with many of their players.
The Pooles made sure the Giants knew about a guy named Charlie Conerly, an Ole Miss legend, and later about another Rebels' QB, Jake Gibbs. But, with Gibbs, other New York connections came into play.
While they fought for the limelight, the Yankees and their football cousins never had a hated rivalry. Gus Mauch served as trainer with both clubs starting at a time when a lot of teams didn't worry too much about gauze and tape and the development of improved safety equipment.
Instead of quarterbacking the Giants, or trying to, Jake Gibbs settled behind the plate as the back-up catcher to a pair of Yankee greats, first Elston Howard and then Thurmon Munson. Jake learned a lot and returned to be a successful coach at his alma mater after his playing days - first coaching Football and later an SEC Baseball championship.
Another guy in the Mississippi connection was Fullback Charlie Flowers. Flowers was cut by the Giants and later wound up on the Titans' roster. Jake Gibbs, by the way, was busy at Ole Miss as Quarterbacks coach and his best known protege was a guy named Archie. Today, Archie's son wears #10 for the G-Men. I think he also has a relative somewhere in the league.
So, while they will never get much mention as scouts, and although not the family von Trapp, the family Poole helped bring music to the ears of New York fans and the family Mara made sure it was a sweet sound.

[Saban1]

After a playing career with Cleveland as a DT and in a pinch, OT, Darrell Palmer later sometime became a scout for the Browns. There was an article in Sport Magazine about Del Shofner, who was still in college, but was considered an excellent prospect by some, including Palmer. Being a Cleveland fan, I thought, and was hoping, that the Browns would draft Shofner. Well, Cleveland was almost always one of the last teams to pick in the draft, so the Rams ended up taking Del in the first round. So, I kind of forgot about Shofner until he was traded to the Giants, who happened to be the arch rival to Cleveland. Of course, Shofner starred for the Giants.

Between Del and Y.A. Tittle, who the Giants also got in a trade in 1961, the Giants owned the Eastern Conference for the next 3 years. Of course, they had quite a supporting cast with guys like Gifford (in 1962 and 1963), Huff, Rote (in 1961), Webster, Robustelli, Lynch, Patton, Barnes (also acquired in 1961), Modzelewski, Katcavage, Grier/LoVetere at RDT, Morrison, Rosey Brown, Stroud, Wietecha (1961 and 1962), Scott, and all the rest.

In the meantime, the Browns did pretty well for a team that almost always drafted last or close to last. They had coaches that were former players and or AAFC rivals like Ara Parseghian, Alex Agase, Buddy Young, and Bruiser Kinard who would recommend players to Cleveland. Kinard recommended Gene Hickerson to Cleveland, and Young recommended Leroy Kelly.

[John Maxymuk]

Small correction on Charlie Flowers. The Giants drafted him as a future in 1959 and secretly signed him. After playing for Ole Miss in 1959, Flowers got a better offer from the Chargers of the new AFL and signed with them. The Giants sued in court, but lost I believe because of the underhanded nature of the original transaction. So the Giants never got the chance to cut him.

[oldecapecod11]

by John Maxymuk » Thu Mar 19, 2015 4:59 pm
"Small correction on Charlie Flowers. The Giants drafted him as a future in 1959 and secretly signed him. After playing for Ole Miss in 1959, Flowers got a better offer from the Chargers of the new AFL and signed with them. The Giants sued in court, but lost I believe because of the underhanded nature of the original transaction. So the Giants never got the chance to cut him."

You are absolutely right, John. I think it is an age thing. I knew that he never dressed for the Giants when he showed up at the Polo Grounds with the Titans but forgot it when I was typing my post. (Maybe it is that chewing gum and walking thing?)
They signed him but Mississippi was going to a Bowl and he would not have been eligible to play. After the game, the signing was announced but he then signed with Los Angeles. When the Giants sued, the court did not deem their method above board and denied the claim. It was all for naught because he did not last long. He was a nice guy but so was Roger Ellis. Roger went on to a long and gallant career with the Secret Service. He was from about as far away from Mississippi as you can get: U-Maine. He was, however, one of the few Black Bears to play professional football. He died just a couple of years ago.
Thank you for the correction. I wanted a player to serve as a hinge between Gibbs and Gibbs again. I suppose I could have looked for one but that is not what I like to do. If I don't know it; looking it up and then trying to impress someone is not my bag.
By the way, I was going to (and will) send you a message concerning an old article of yours I happened to read the other day in Coffin Corner. Frankly, I thought it was magnificent - so much better than some of the space fillers. (I guess they'll soon use 18-point type or / and lifesize photos.)
Anyway... yours was the one with the different graphs / charts / grids re QBs. What a piece!!! Anyone that has not read it, DO IT.
You won't find better.

[BD Sullivan]

....all teams that won had talent(we all know that); question is where did the talent come from? who knew what about the players selected, or allowed to come to camp? and then the right place at right time aspect. eddie kotal of the rams and some of his scouting stories were fascinating to read about(especially gene "the big daddy"). how about a favorite scouting story from everyone at the forum?

My favorite scouting story was about the Steelers scouting Jack Lambert at Kent State, and after watching him play or work out, Dan Rooney approached Lambert in the parking lot. Rooney asked Lambert to do a quick work out, and among other things, how fast he could hit the ground to apply a tackle. Lambert did so, and with it being an gravel parking lot, when Lambert came back up he had bits of gravel sticking to his face. Rooney was sold on Lambert.

I recall another Lambert draft story where the staff was debating about whether to take him, and they decided at minimum he would be a good special teams player. Years later, one of the coaches said, "Imagine if we didn't care about special teams."