5 Contributor Nominees advance for Pro Football Hall of Fame Class of 2027

[PaulPFHOF]

Just announced from Hall (first in what will likely be several announcements coming):

“5 Contributor Nominees advance for Pro Football Hall of Fame Class of 2027”

Group to meet Nov. 17 to choose 1 Candidate for possible election Check Voting Info

Five individuals who contributed to the sport of professional football in distinct ways have advanced in the process for possible election to the Pro Football Hall of Fame’s Class of 2027.

Members of the Contributor Subcommittee made their selections through multiple reduction votes from an original field of 42 Nominees. The subcommittee will discuss the remaining Nominees at length when they meet virtually Nov. 17 to select one Candidate for the full Selection Committee to consider when it determines a new class of enshrinees in early 2027.

The five who remain under consideration for election in the Contributor category are Ralph Hay, Robert Kraft, Virginia McCaskey, Doug Williams and John Wooten.

Hay and Kraft reached this point in the selection process last year, with Kraft ultimately receiving the subcommittee’s vote for advancement to the annual selection meeting. McCaskey, Williams and Wooten also have advanced deep in the process in previous years.

[PaulPFHOF]

and the one finalist from this group will have to compete directly with 13 players plus 1 coach (likely BillB) for election to the PFHOF class of 2027 (5-6 elected)-that will be very hard to achieve for any contributor when voters if given choice, usually prefer player

[Brian wolf]

Thanks Paul ... Williams and McCaskey advance again ... no Eddie Kotal, Jack Vainisi, Byron Donzis, Bernie Parrish, Dick Haley, Tony Razzano and other contributors who were far more deserving.

How is Kotal not in this HOF? He was so good with the Rams he had an influence on MLB as well.

[Brian wolf]

Where the hell is Kilroy? Seriously?

[Ken Crippen]

Where the hell is Kilroy? Seriously?

Especially since they changed the rules to get Doug Williams in. Kilroy was a HOF executive. Add the fact that he was an All-Decade player and it is beyond a no-brainer.

Kotal not getting a sniff is criminal. Kotal and Kilroy did more to advance scouting and personnel evaluation than Gil Brandt. I can say that with 100% certainty with the work I am doing on my new book on the early history of pro football scouting. Diving deep into all of these people, I am confident in how things played out.

Wooten is a complicated case. Working in his favor is the tireless work that he did to advance minority candidates for coaching and front office positions. However, there are downsides. He was instrumental in pushing for the Rooney Rule. The natural question is: Do you think that the Rooney Rule is successful? If not, that works against Wooten. Also, the Cowboys graded their scouts. Wooten was consistently in the bottom half of the scouting team.

Names that usually come up:
-Vainisi has no business in the HOF. There is a lot of misinformation out there about him, which makes him an attractive candidate. However, when you see what actually happened with him, he does not belong.
-Art Rooney, Jr.: Knocks against him are his last name (Rooney fatigue) and the fact that they already inducted Bill Nunn, Jr. They ignore the fact that ARJ hired and trained Nunn. The Steelers' scouting department was in shambles (it could be argued that it was non-existent). ARJ built it up.
-Dick Haley: Bill Nunn was already inducted.
-Bud Adams: No owner is getting in before Kraft. Adams also had personality issues, and some say that he was just a puppet for the commissioner after the merger. His contributions were while he was in the AFL.

It's obvious that voters are going off name recognition and not the totality of historical contributions.

[Brian wolf]

So Ken, you dont believe Vainisi was crucial in bringing in Lombardi? Helping out the coaches, GMs, scouts in helping bring all that HOF talent to GB? ... he had to have done more than being a traveling secretary, road logistics?

[Ken Crippen]

So Ken, you dont believe Vainisi was crucial in bringing in Lombardi? Helping out the coaches, GMs, scouts in helping bring all that HOF talent to GB? ... he had to have done more than being a traveling secretary, road logistics?

Vainisi did not bring Lombardi to Green Bay. It was Bert Bell. This was a myth from Maraniss' book. Later, Maraniss recanted and said that he got it wrong. Bell was the one that negotiated with the Mara's to let Lombardi go to Green Bay. And the only reason Lombardi was the coach is because Green Bay's first choice (Forest Evashevski) turned down the Packers. They went to their second choice: Lombardi. If Vainisi was so influential, why did they want to go with Evashevski?

Vainisi did not do the scouting outside of a few local games. The actual scouting was done by others. Vainisi's role (even when Lombardi essentially demoted him) was to organize the scouting reports by others. Under Lombardi, his assistant coaches did all of the scouting. Before that, they had a few scouts, but essentially relied on bird dogs from Lambeau's network and Lambeau's assistant coaches to get information on players.

Also, when Vainisi put his hat into the ring to be general manager (before hiring Lombardi), they didn't even interview him.

Vainisi did contracts, travel logistics, and put scouting reports into binders under Lombardi.

[PaulPFHOF]

For decades when contributors were combined in one pool of candidates with players (and coaches) very few got elected, since Hall has returned back to that model, beyond Kraft I personally feel its very unlikely 25 voters would elect other contributors (even those with very deserving cases, and I agree there are several) over players when they are competing against each other for limited election slots each year (5 or 6), and we have even more recent evidence with no elected (nor any coaches) when they competed in recent years against senior players. Frankly makes me less interested and focused on contributor resumes given the near to impossible odds they face to be elected.

[Brian wolf]

Getting back to your research on early scouting Ken, at least till the book comes out ... was there other pioneering scouts or pro personnel people that are getting overlooked or forgotten in the contributor process? Possible General Managers or team organizers similar to Peggy Parrett not getting the recognition as contributor candidates that they deserve or should be getting?

It was incredible reading about ways players were being drafted in the 40s and 50s. Some were literally drafted because of how they looked in a newspaper or magazine photo. Raw, unsubstantiated statistics in newspapers or heresay. Its still weird how Paul Brown, a head coach who brought in, yet also drove away so much young talent for the Browns could draft Bobby Garrett as a #1 pick without knowing about his speech/stuttering problem?

[Ken Crippen]

Getting back to your research on early scouting Ken, at least till the book comes out ... was there other pioneering scouts or pro personnel people that are getting overlooked or forgotten in the contributor process? Possible General Managers or team organizers similar to Peggy Parrett not getting the recognition as contributor candidates that they deserve or should be getting?

It was incredible reading about ways players were being drafted in the 40s and 50s. Some were literally drafted because of how they looked in a newspaper or magazine photo. Raw, unsubstantiated statistics in newspapers or heresay. Its still weird how Paul Brown, a head coach who brought in, yet also drove away so much young talent for the Browns could draft Bobby Garrett as a #1 pick without knowing about his speech/stuttering problem?

To me, Eddie Kotal and Bucko Kilroy are no-brainers (if you know history). Outside looking in would be Mike Giddings, Sr. and C.O. Brocato. Giddings has a much stronger case than Brocato.

Lloyd Wells is a bit different. The HOF (and practically every media outlet) says that Wells was the first full-time African American scout in NFL history. That is not true. He is the first in AFL history, not NFL. Wells was hired part-time by the Chiefs in 1963, then full-time in 1965. Lowell Perry was hired full-time by the Steelers in 1958. Wells and Jackie Graves were the most influential African American scouts during the 1960s and 1970s. I am not sure I would elevate either of them to HOF status.

Buddy Young came up last year because of the memo that he wrote in 1966, pushing for more African Americans in front office positions. While it was a monumental memo, it does not elevate to HOF status and teams were already hiring African Americans as scouts in in front office positions.

I will write up a more detailed article and will link it here. It will either be today or tomorrow.