Russell Wilson in Canton?

[74_75_78_79_]

Some here, I believe (correct/forgive me if wrong), have declared him as a future-HOFer. Despite being a dwarf here, I respectfully am not buying. And this goes for if he would have retired a few years ago as a Seahawk.

Ten Pro Bowls but not a single All-Pro and was he ever a top-3 QB in any season? Fair or not, a simple handing the ball off to Beast-Mode or still whizzing that pass but actually connecting to Lockette instead, and he could 'coast' into Canton from there only having to simply have a few more good statistical/playoff seasons even if not a single All-Pro selection. Perhaps these recent struggle-some years would be 'protected' by the back-to-back Lombardis. But a single World Championship, with the Legion & Beast-Mode getting more credit for that very '13 campaign (and Russell himself being the one who threw the INT to Butler), looks to not be enough.

All of this was discussed among Nick Wright & Co on 'First Things First'.

But considering the 'allowance'/lowering-the-bar for many a recent inductee (perhaps, maybe, one or a few from my own team), he's probably still not a shoe-out. Barring some weird resurgence involving he playing back to his previous level and actually leading whatever team(s) he's on to multiple Lombardis, he's not at all Canton-qualified IMO.

Thoughts?

PS - it was also discussed on the show that Wilson-to-Butler is one of the biggest 'sliding door' moments ever. They said it may have affected the Pats being they still haven't won another SB since 2004. I don't know, IMO being that the nine-year donut-hole of no World Titles didn't stop them from winning SBs again, sure-enough with me they wouldn't have let yet another year take any air out of such drive. If anything, Tom would have been angry and even more hell-bent on winning SBs again and may have actually been the one to go to L and beat Cam & Co instead - along with, perhaps, repeating in '16! Either way, Pats at least win a couple more SBs before Brady leaves NE.

And, again, Russell 'graduates' to Canton already. Just as long as he 'takes a few courses/credits over the summer'/make it to Pro Bowls and playoff berths the remainder of the decade.

[Brian wolf]

Yes, Wilsons' slide since being injured with Seattle in 2021 has hurt his HOF chances, yet I still feel he will get voted in. His career passer rating, winning pct as starter, and yardage as a running threat should not be discounted and had Lockette simply went for the ball, he would have had his back-to-back championships. Lockette didnt fight for the ball--a no-no on a short slant--but Butler did and easily took it. I still hope Wilson can find a way to revitalize his career but it wont be with the Giants. He has to get out of the pocket but doesnt have his Tarkenton-like mobility anymore.

[SeahawkFever]

Some here, I believe (correct/forgive me if wrong), have declared him as a future-HOFer. Despite being a dwarf here, I respectfully am not buying. And this goes for if he would have retired a few years ago as a Seahawk.

Ten Pro Bowls but not a single All-Pro and was he ever a top-3 QB in any season? Fair or not, a simple handing the ball off to Beast-Mode or still whizzing that pass but actually connecting to Lockette instead, and he could 'coast' into Canton from there only having to simply have a few more good statistical/playoff seasons even if not a single All-Pro selection. Perhaps these recent struggle-some years would be 'protected' by the back-to-back Lombardis. But a single World Championship, with the Legion & Beast-Mode getting more credit for that very '13 campaign (and Russell himself being the one who threw the INT to Butler), looks to not be enough.

All of this was discussed among Nick Wright & Co on 'First Things First'.

But considering the 'allowance'/lowering-the-bar for many a recent inductee (perhaps, maybe, one or a few from my own team), he's probably still not a shoe-out. Barring some weird resurgence involving he playing back to his previous level and actually leading whatever team(s) he's on to multiple Lombardis, he's not at all Canton-qualified IMO.

Thoughts?

PS - it was also discussed on the show that Wilson-to-Butler is one of the biggest 'sliding door' moments ever. They said it may have affected the Pats being they still haven't won another SB since 2004. I don't know, IMO being that the nine-year donut-hole of no World Titles didn't stop them from winning SBs again, sure-enough with me they wouldn't have let yet another year take any air out of such drive. If anything, Tom would have been angry and even more hell-bent on winning SBs again and may have actually been the one to go to L and beat Cam & Co instead - along with, perhaps, repeating in '16! Either way, Pats at least win a couple more SBs before Brady leaves NE.

And, again, Russell 'graduates' to Canton already. Just as long as he 'takes a few courses/credits over the summer'/make it to Pro Bowls and playoff berths the remainder of the decade.

Russell actually did get voted second team all pro by the AP in 2019 (with Lamar Jackson getting first team).

That said, I would mostly agree with this. At his peak, he may have been bordering on a top five quarterback, but three would've felt high.

I would view Russell Wilson as a future Hall of Very Good quarterback, but that's just me.
In retrospect, it's unfortunate that he really started to come into his own as the Legion of Boom was starting to show their age.

They really only had probably two years where both were at a higher level (Russell really hitting his stride in 2015 I'd argue, and that defense showing age in 2017).

[Jay Z]

As far as AP goes, Elway was never AP. Ditto Rothlisberger, Rivers, Staubach.

Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Rothlisberger are all basically locks. I wouldn't call Wilson a lock, but he's at the 80% level or so which means he's going in. He's a better candidate than Rivers, Ryan, Eli, Stafford.

The only real argument against him is Small Hall and that's unenforceable with the NFL HOF. So Wilson belongs.

[SeahawkFever]

As far as AP goes, Elway was never AP. Ditto Rothlisberger, Rivers, Staubach.

Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Rothlisberger are all basically locks. I wouldn't call Wilson a lock, but he's at the 80% level or so which means he's going in. He's a better candidate than Rivers, Ryan, Eli, Stafford.

The only real argument against him is Small Hall and that's unenforceable with the NFL HOF. So Wilson belongs.

If we include second team all pros (not as well known but still worth an acknowledgment in my opinion):

John Elway was the AP second team all pro in 1987, 1993 and 1996.

Aaron Rodgers was a first team all pro in 2011, 2014, 2020, and 2021, and a second team all pro in 2012.

Drew Brees was a first team all pro in 2006, and a second team all pro in 2008, 2009, 2011, and 2018.

Ben Roethlisberger, Philip Rivers, Roger Staubach however never were voted first or second team all pro by the AP.

[74_75_78_79_]

As far as AP goes, Elway was never AP. Ditto Rothlisberger, Rivers, Staubach.

Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Rothlisberger are all basically locks. I wouldn't call Wilson a lock, but he's at the 80% level or so which means he's going in. He's a better candidate than Rivers, Ryan, Eli, Stafford.

The only real argument against him is Small Hall and that's unenforceable with the NFL HOF. So Wilson belongs.

My take is from an 'old school', "small Hall" point of view which is shaped by my hanging around here all these years. Once upon a time, like a casual fan, I would say, "Get him in the Hall, he was good. Get him, and also him in the Hall too; they were good..." And don't get me wrong, I'm still not qualified to be a Canton-voter; but for sure have come a long way thanks to this place.

As I said, given the lowering of the bar as of late, he's not a shoe-out. If others perhaps lesser than him have gotten in or will get in, then it'd be nothing for me to go nuts over if he does get in. It's simply the way it is now. I did like him as a player/person and enjoyed watching his game throughout the 2010s. This is Canton we're talking of though and I think most of us prefer that small Hall.

Where the "fair or not" comes in...its not all his fault they losing that SB to the Pats, but I think if he completes that pass to Lockette - or, again, hands it off to BM - he likely just needs to at least gather up some more Pro Bowls and playoff berths for the rest of the decade.

Yes, Wilsons' slide since being injured with Seattle in 2021 has hurt his HOF chances, yet I still feel he will get voted in. His career passer rating, winning pct as starter, and yardage as a running threat should not be discounted and had Lockette simply went for the ball, he would have had his back-to-back championships. Lockette didnt fight for the ball--a no-no on a short slant--but Butler did and easily took it. I still hope Wilson can find a way to revitalize his career but it wont be with the Giants. He has to get out of the pocket but doesnt have his Tarkenton-like mobility anymore.

Yes, those career stats you mention along with a back-to-back ought to have got him sailing even into a small Hall fair-or-not just like what actually did happen (INT his fault or not), to me, along with his recent struggles serves an an obstacle, fair-or-not. Excuse the what-if but not just Russell, but a back-to-back may very well have kept that championship window open just a little bit longer thus giving Wilson the opportunity to better his case all the more.

[Brian wolf]

The blame for not winning more championships falls on Pete Carroll. This team with Wilson was good enough to win it all from 2012-2016, 2018-2020, but once players were paid on defense, their performance slipped as well. Wilson had Lynch to help him but the offensive line kept getting worse as a parade of runners kept getting injured after Marshawn left. Most of his receivers with Seattle were good but not great. Percy Harvin had potential, but was also a nutjob and the team gave up on Jimmy Graham too soon. Could Wilson had done more in postseason? Possibly, but the defense had some bad playoff performances as well.

I still believe to this day, that had the Legion Of Boom had not had breakdowns at the end of the 2012/13 playoff game against Atlanta, where Matty Ice actually lived up to his nickname, that the Seahawks would have won it all Wilson's rookie season. That matchup with Baltimore would have been awesome. Assuming they beat the 49ers of course, who they would beat the next two seasons.

[Brian wolf]

Everyone knows Wilson was one of the best runner/scramblers at QB in NFL history

He succeeded as a QB with a strong team running game and defense. When those were taken away, he wasnt as good.

Leading Team Rushers with Wilson at QB

2012 -- Lynch 1590 yrds
2013 -- Lynch 1257
2014 -- Lynch 1306
2015 -- Rawls 830
2016 -- Michael 469
2017 -- WILSON 586
2018 -- Carson 1151
2019 -- Carson 1230
2020 -- Carson 681
2021 -- Penny 749

2022 -- Murray 703
2023 -- Williams 774
2024 -- Harris 1034

When Wilson has to "cook" its usually with a bad ground game, though he had a passer rating of over 110.00 in 2015 and 2018 and over a 105.00 rating in 2019 and 2020.

Had he not went to Denver in 2022, could he have fared better with Walker and Penny with Seattle? Or did his divide with Carroll become too much? Did Carroll favor Geno Smith by then?

[readjack]

I can live with Russ not in Canton, but only if Eli, Rivers, and Stafford aren't either. I think his resume stands up with those. His career passer rating was over 100 until a few years ago, and he is still 5th all-time. Eli, Rivers, Stafford, Roethlisberger and Matt Ryan get a lot of credit for at various points being top 10 or higher in passing yards and passing TDs, but those are numbers that only go up the longer you play.

Passer rating, as you all know, tends to decline the longer you play. Yet there is Russ 5th all-time with a chance to rise, since Lamar, Mahomes and Burrow are all ahead of him.

In 2019, Wilson was 2nd team All Pro and was PFF MVP. Rivers and Stafford were never 1st or 2nd team All Pro, and Eli never even received a single All Pro VOTE in his entire career.

People like to poo-poo Wilson's 10 Pro Bowls; four were as a replacement. But if it's so easy to be a replacement Pro Bowler, Stafford would have more than his two total PBs. Of Wilson, Eli, Stafford and Rivers, Wilson has the:

* best winning %
* highest passer rating
* highest TD%
* lowest INT%
* and the only All Pro season of the four

I think voters should boot Eli from the finals this year, not advance Rivers and hold back every non-Brady/Brees QB until they can debate Eli, Rivers, Ben, Ryan and Cam together, and discuss with them, even if they're not yet eligible, Russ and Stafford. This is not going to happen but it should.

Some here, I believe (correct/forgive me if wrong), have declared him as a future-HOFer. Despite being a dwarf here, I respectfully am not buying. And this goes for if he would have retired a few years ago as a Seahawk.

Ten Pro Bowls but not a single All-Pro and was he ever a top-3 QB in any season? Fair or not, a simple handing the ball off to Beast-Mode or still whizzing that pass but actually connecting to Lockette instead, and he could 'coast' into Canton from there only having to simply have a few more good statistical/playoff seasons even if not a single All-Pro selection. Perhaps these recent struggle-some years would be 'protected' by the back-to-back Lombardis. But a single World Championship, with the Legion & Beast-Mode getting more credit for that very '13 campaign (and Russell himself being the one who threw the INT to Butler), looks to not be enough.

All of this was discussed among Nick Wright & Co on 'First Things First'.

But considering the 'allowance'/lowering-the-bar for many a recent inductee (perhaps, maybe, one or a few from my own team), he's probably still not a shoe-out. Barring some weird resurgence involving he playing back to his previous level and actually leading whatever team(s) he's on to multiple Lombardis, he's not at all Canton-qualified IMO.

Thoughts?

PS - it was also discussed on the show that Wilson-to-Butler is one of the biggest 'sliding door' moments ever. They said it may have affected the Pats being they still haven't won another SB since 2004. I don't know, IMO being that the nine-year donut-hole of no World Titles didn't stop them from winning SBs again, sure-enough with me they wouldn't have let yet another year take any air out of such drive. If anything, Tom would have been angry and even more hell-bent on winning SBs again and may have actually been the one to go to L and beat Cam & Co instead - along with, perhaps, repeating in '16! Either way, Pats at least win a couple more SBs before Brady leaves NE.

And, again, Russell 'graduates' to Canton already. Just as long as he 'takes a few courses/credits over the summer'/make it to Pro Bowls and playoff berths the remainder of the decade.