1998

[SeahawkFever]

Dan Reeves is the most overrated coach in the history of football

In Denver, he was literally carried by John Elway, 4QC’s, and the Mile High Mystique

The Broncos made 3 SB’s in spite of him.

And the 98 Falcons were not the smarter football team, a cupcake schedule made us think tht they were.

Exactly. Dan Reeves should have been fired after the 1990 season (when Denver went 5-11 in a SB hangover-type year).

That clown was obsessed with finding a QB of the future, and he passed up Carl Pickens for Tommy Maddox.

If Elway didn't get hurt in 1992, and the Broncos made the playoffs, Elway wouldn't have come back because Dan's contract would have been extended (and the team never wins a SB with Dan and Maddox).

If so, does Elway leave in free agency or does he request a trade?

If the latter, then Denver probably would have gotten something significant for Elway.

As for Reeves, the only quibble I could potentially have with him being considered the most overrated coach is if he’s regarded well enough to begin with.

I typically see him considered one of the five to ten best ringless coaches and that’s it. At that level of a standing there would still probably be at minimum 25 or 30 coaches you would be ranking above him.

Looking at the Hall of Very Good list, it says he was voted in eight years ago. If you had to do it over again would you not have voted him to that?

[ShinobiMusashi]

Marino for me falls into the Barry Sanders category. I hate to talk negative about their careers because they were amazing and two of my favorites to watch, but these guys careers have been overly romanticized and they are built up now like they were all time bests at their positions and there's just this litany revision history excuses for why they never won Championships. Those guys were special attraction entertaining players that were fun to watch but neither was ever going to ever carry any teams to a title, they just weren't cut from that cloth, but at the same time they were larger than life superstars that overshadowed whatever teams they played for, both had freakish once in a lifetime talent, almost to the point where it was like they existed on a separate plane from the rest of their respective teams. That is not a championship winning dynamic for a sport where it's 11 vs 11 on the field.

Reading this article makes me cringe a bit...https://johnbaranowski.wordpress.com/20 ... an-marino/

I never declared Dan as being totally blameless in his playoff/SB-win(s) shortcomings. You win as a team, you lose as a team. But reading that, and further details and examples given, tightens it up some for someone who would still like to see him in a Legandary light, #13 did want to pass the ball as much as possible even if wanting to do so too much, this I already knew. Yes, it would have been nice had Steelers got him in '83. But I always did opine that getting Phil Simms would have, perhaps, maybe been just as fine.

Barry Sanders didn't want any other RB in the backfield with him. I always felt winning a championship with just one back in the backfield would be problematic. You need to have that blocking back, I'd think, along with that other back being a power-back to complement things. Most of his career involved he being pulled from the backfield in goal-line situations. And, at least early on, when breaking away he would get caught from behind just before making the end-zone (if memory serves well, I do remember him greatly improving that in the end). Juking-out tacklers, causing that ACL to Rod Woodson in the '95 opener, seemed to be his specialty. Great highlight-reel stuff, a 1st Ballot HOFer, but perhaps lacking certain things as already aforementioned thus preventing him from being on Jim Brown's level (as his own father would opine to him) along with those other 'All-Time Great' RBs of that very tier. He being all by himself in the backfield not, really, a recipe for a team winning a World Championship. Much to blame throughout for Detroit's '90s playoff shortcomings, overall more-so than Sanders. Why ever have a run-n-shoot in the first place?? #20, sadly, not completely blameless either (-1 yard vs GB in that playoff game such a haunting stat).

Dan wanted to pass more often than maybe he should have, Barry wanted to be all alone in the backfield, and Peyton Manning wanted to do-it-all, be the OC & GM as well, along with - without even having to say anything - influencing management to "not dare" pick a QB ever in any of the early rounds. I once felt that his 'artillery' in that old he-vs-Brady debate was the fact that Indy fell all the way to 2-14 in the year he was out as opposed to the Pats finishing 11-5 with Cassel. But some of you in here helped me flip that logic.

It's all about winning championships. Tom Brady was fine-enough with stronger backup QBs and not feeling he having to do everything. Peyton could have very easily had a zero titles career if the wind blew just right. 2006, though a deserved title to me, had a bit of that "stars-aligned" vibe to it, and 2015...well, you know. I'm glad #18 ended up getting some Hardware (and wish #13 & #20 would have as well), but he was someone who wanted to 'do-it-all' while in Indy. Understandable as also the case with Marino and Sanders, that's being a competitor, but a certain coach or management team simply implementing that team concept can tone something like that down. Like one of you said previously, Elway once being a QB who early in his career felt he had to 'do it all' and then won two SBs a different way, was the very GM who set it all straight upon #18 showing up at Mile High.


1998 - Dan was on his way out, Peyton just getting started, Barry's final season. I'll say it yet again...much fan-dome to come, still a fan today, but general-excitement going into a season and throughout the entire season and looking back at it, 1998 thus far is still seen by myself as the last peak; and this, of course, despite my Steelers collapsing, this despite the SB itself being one of the all-time snoozers (I was still excited going into the 'Elway/Shanny vs Dan Reeves' showdown, predicting it'd go into OT). Not my favorite season since following, but no season since has matched it as far as, again, general fan-dome before, throughout, and after.

Seeing your posts about 98 around the boards here when I found the place really was what got me interested in 1998. It has been a fun rabbit hole and definitely that was a special season in the NFL, it's a shame I had lost interest in 97 and missed out. At least I had pro wrestling.

But feel the need to point out again how much stronger the AFC was that year in 98, look at that. Was this the year the balance finally turned, after 4-5 years of salary cap and unrestricted free agency? It's like the Steelers and Chiefs fell off in 1998 but did they really or did that conference just get really much stronger around them by that year? Not sure what the AFC's record vs NFC was that year but would be interested to check it out later. NFC had great teams in Minnesota, Green Bay, San Francisco, Atlanta but beyond that man it was bad. Some teams in the NFC were big huge messes that year, Philly and Carolina, Washington early on, a few others. AFC on the other hand had some tough teams missed the playoffs that were maybe better than some of the NFC teams that did, a pole shift from a decade earlier in the NFL.

[CSKreager]

Marino for me falls into the Barry Sanders category. I hate to talk negative about their careers because they were amazing and two of my favorites to watch, but these guys careers have been overly romanticized and they are built up now like they were all time bests at their positions and there's just this litany revision history excuses for why they never won Championships. Those guys were special attraction entertaining players that were fun to watch but neither was ever going to ever carry any teams to a title, they just weren't cut from that cloth, but at the same time they were larger than life superstars that overshadowed whatever teams they played for, both had freakish once in a lifetime talent, almost to the point where it was like they existed on a separate plane from the rest of their respective teams. That is not a championship winning dynamic for a sport where it's 11 vs 11 on the field.

So Earnest Byner happened to be “cut from that cloth” because he fell into a perfect situation behind the Hogs yet somehow is perceived to have carried a team to a title

He wasn’t a special talent. Ask Cleveland.

[7DnBrnc53]

If so, does Elway leave in free agency or does he request a trade?

I think he would have been a free agent.

Looking at the Hall of Very Good list, it says he was voted in eight years ago. If you had to do it over again would you not have voted him to that?

I might because he did some good things, but I wouldn't vote him for the HOF. Elway drove the bus there by the late-80's, not him.

NFL coaches get too much credit for a little success, and they don't get held accountable for what they are doing lately. Tomlin in Pittsburgh today and Don Shula in Miami in 1988-89 are prime examples. Both of those guys should be or should have been fired.

[ChrisBabcock]

Looking at the Hall of Very Good list, it says he was voted in eight years ago. If you had to do it over again would you not have voted him to that?

At the time I think the "selling point" of his HOVG candidacy was the total of his NFL career as a player and a coach.

[ShinobiMusashi]

Marino for me falls into the Barry Sanders category. I hate to talk negative about their careers because they were amazing and two of my favorites to watch, but these guys careers have been overly romanticized and they are built up now like they were all time bests at their positions and there's just this litany revision history excuses for why they never won Championships. Those guys were special attraction entertaining players that were fun to watch but neither was ever going to ever carry any teams to a title, they just weren't cut from that cloth, but at the same time they were larger than life superstars that overshadowed whatever teams they played for, both had freakish once in a lifetime talent, almost to the point where it was like they existed on a separate plane from the rest of their respective teams. That is not a championship winning dynamic for a sport where it's 11 vs 11 on the field.

So Earnest Byner happened to be “cut from that cloth” because he fell into a perfect situation behind the Hogs yet somehow is perceived to have carried a team to a title

He wasn’t a special talent. Ask Cleveland.

I don't think he's perceived to have carried the 91 Redskins to that title. But that is a great case to further my point, Byner was a soldier, the perfect guy for the job they needed him to do. That job didn't require him to carry the whole team he played a role in a team offense. The Redskins team that year was so good because they were a team, they didn't rely on 1 single player to be a super human like the Lions with Barry or Dolphins with Marino.

[SeahawkFever]

Looking at the Hall of Very Good list, it says he was voted in eight years ago. If you had to do it over again would you not have voted him to that?

At the time I think the "selling point" of his HOVG candidacy was the total of his NFL career as a player and a coach.

That actually kind of reminds me of what I was thinking when I nominated George Seifert a couple years back (didn’t nominate anyone this past year because I was really busy with moving).

I was thinking what we have here is a coach who has a coaching career that is typically considered not worthy of Canton, but also had a really good stint as a defensive coordinator before (they obviously had drafted some good defensive players who developed, but they also had top five defenses all but one year he was a coordinator)

As for the coaching career, he had a great record by win percentage (about the same as Bill Belichick when his Carolina years are included; and there’s only five coaches with as high a win percentage over as many games as he coached) and technically two titles, but he didn’t do well at all in Carolina when he got there, and in particular the first title in 1989 was just him being handed a roster that had just won a Super Bowl.

I thought those two things combined sounded like a Hall of Very Good coaching career but that’s just me.

[SeahawkFever]

If so, does Elway leave in free agency or does he request a trade?

I think he would have been a free agent.

Looking at the Hall of Very Good list, it says he was voted in eight years ago. If you had to do it over again would you not have voted him to that?

I might because he did some good things, but I wouldn't vote him for the HOF. Elway drove the bus there by the late-80's, not him.

NFL coaches get too much credit for a little success, and they don't get held accountable for what they are doing lately. Tomlin in Pittsburgh today and Don Shula in Miami in 1988-89 are prime examples. Both of those guys should be or should have been fired.

Not someone who’s seen as a future Hall of Famer, but could the same be said of Mike McCarthy? If he didn’t win a Super Bowl in 2010, is he out of the league a few years earlier?

[ShinobiMusashi]

Looking at the Hall of Very Good list, it says he was voted in eight years ago. If you had to do it over again would you not have voted him to that?

At the time I think the "selling point" of his HOVG candidacy was the total of his NFL career as a player and a coach.

That actually kind of reminds me of what I was thinking when I nominated George Seifert a couple years back (didn’t nominate anyone this past year because I was really busy with moving).

I was thinking what we have here is a coach who has a coaching career that is typically considered not worthy of Canton, but also had a really good stint as a defensive coordinator before (they obviously had drafted some good defensive players who developed, but they also had top five defenses all but one year he was a coordinator)

As for the coaching career, he had a great record by win percentage (about the same as Bill Belichick when his Carolina years are included; and there’s only five coaches with as high a win percentage over as many games as he coached) and technically two titles, but he didn’t do well at all in Carolina when he got there, and in particular the first title in 1989 was just him being handed a roster that had just won a Super Bowl.

I thought those two things combined sounded like a Hall of Very Good coaching career but that’s just me.

I think Seifert deserves more credit for the 1999 and 2000 Panthers than he gets. Look at the absolute dumpster fire that franchise was in 1998 before he took over. He took one of the biggest messes in the league a roster of 2nd and 3rd string veterans and they were damn good there the last few weeks of 1999. They barely missed the playoffs and had the best offense in the NFL there the last few weeks, even better than the Rams. They lost in a blizzard in Pittsburgh that cost them the wild card spot in the NFC ultimately. They weren't as good in 2000 at 7-9 but I believe they swept the Rams that year. I have a crazy theory that had that team got in the 1999 playoffs they would have beat the Rams in a third meeting that year(St. Louis swept them in 99, second game was closer). The team went right back to being a dumpster fire by 2001 and he gets a lot of flack for it because of how bad they were. But with that roster and where that team was at before and after he got there I think he should get more credit than he gets for the 99 and 2000 seasons not being as bad.

[Ness]

Not only do I think those Falcons are overrated, the hate they get is deserved.

5 losing seasons in 6 years and sandwiched in between they just randomly made a Super Bowl with....... Chris Chandler

Jamal Anderson was an average RB whose numbers looked good because he got a million carries against a weak schedule.

They never felt SB worthy and it showed.

The 49ers were pretenders after 1994.

Ok this is bogus. When your floor from 1995 to 1998 is the divisional round with a floor of at least 11 regular season wins, you aren't a pretender to win the SB or at least get there. Those 49ers teams could have gotten back to the SB, and the only blowout loss was against Green Bay in 1996 on the road without Steve Young. I think they beat Atlanta on the road in 1998 if Garrison Hearst doesn't get hurt on the first play of the game. The Packers were a consistent stumbling block, but that was the only team really for SF. That doesn't negate being a SB contender.