Dal '65-thru-'85, Pit '04-thru-'24 - TWO Lombardis, ZERO losing seasons

[74_75_78_79_]

One HC - Tom Landry - against two HCs - Cowher & Tomlin.

Well...not really two Steelers HCs! Mostly Landry against Tomlin with Cowher's final three seasons added in. A 39-15 total for Bill with a 5-1 playoff record along with a (2005) World Championship a significant additive! But Landry, with me, is either as good as both HCs combined at worst; or just better than both combined which, I admit, I lean quite a bit to (of course NOLL better than Tom for Obvious reasoning, IMO). And if its, essentially, between just Landry and just one of the two - which, in this case, this is...really he vs Tomlin - then FORGET about it!!

I may be polite by saying that. Five Super Bowl berths to three along with...TWELVE trips to a conference championship game (of course '66 & '67 should "count" as a CCG-berth; two razor-close ones to...VINCE, mind you) as opposed to just five combined-CCG-berths between Cowher/Tomlin.

Tom Landry, in this '65-thru-'85 span, was 215-86-2 strictly in the regular season!
He was 20-16 in the playoffs.
Total it up, and its 235-102-2.
Eighteen playoff berths!

Cowher, in those final three seasons of his, was a 34-14 in the regular season. 5-1 in the playoffs.
Tomlin was 183-107-2 in the regular season and 8-11 in the playoffs thus 191-118-2 overall.
Both Bill & MIke, together, total it up at 230-123-2 (remember, Bill's tie vs Vick's Falcons was two years prior to '04).
Combined, they both made it to the playoffs fourteen times as opposed to - again - Landry's eighteen.

Yes, Landry the convincing winner (especially the TWELVE CCG-berths). But considering seeing some recent YouTube offering that compared these two runs together as the two longest non-losing season runs at 21-straight apiece, I thought I make a thread of it.

Yes, if not for '81 and '82 respectively for the Raiders & Forty Niners - and just a simple 2000 or 2020 being non-losers up in Foxboro (or Shula turning '76 & '88 into non-losers in South Beach...OR Curly winning an extra game in '33) - then this thread, of course, is now pointless.

Thoughts?

[SeahawkFever]

Cowboys definitely have the better extended stretch.

In addition to the better record, and more championships and more deeper playoff runs, the Cowboys of 1965-1985 also reached a higher average statistical separation.

At least by the percentile of my score% stat.

If the best team by the metric is on the 100th percentile, the last place team is on the 0th percentile, and the remaining percent in between is split evenly between everyone else, the Cowboys would be on the 90th percentile or higher nine times (1966, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1973, 1978, 1980, 1981, and 1982). 1966 and 1978 of which were on the 100th percentile. Their average percentile over those 21 seasons was 83.57%.

The Steelers by contrast had an average Score% percentile of 71.74%, with four teams in the 21 season stretch that cracked the 90th percentile (2004, 2005, 2008, and 2010). None of those four were on the 100th percentile.

On the other end of the spectrum, the Cardinals from 1977 to 2007 have possibly the worst extended stretch of regular season play ever. They are averaging a percentile of 24.73% over those 31 seasons; with only four teams that are above the 50th percentile (1983, 1984, 1993 and 1994). Their 2008 Super Bowl appearance notwithstanding, that percentile only rises to 25.32% if you extend the stretch to 2012. I'd have to double check, but I'm pretty sure their win percentage is below .400 for a stretch that long too.

For that matter, the Cardinals stretch from 1977-2007 has a lower percentile in its time than the asset line that technically became the Colts had before the Colts are acknowledged to have started (Dayton Triangles, Brooklyn Dodgers, Yanks and 1952 Dallas Texans who combined for a 28.44% percentile).

[74_75_78_79_]

Cowboys definitely have the better extended stretch.

In addition to the better record, and more championships and more deeper playoff runs, the Cowboys of 1965-1985 also reached a higher average statistical separation.

At least by the percentile of my score% stat.

If the best team by the metric is on the 100th percentile, the last place team is on the 0th percentile, and the remaining percent in between is split evenly between everyone else, the Cowboys would be on the 90th percentile or higher nine times (1966, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1973, 1978, 1980, 1981, and 1982). 1966 and 1978 of which were on the 100th percentile. Their average percentile over those 21 seasons was 83.57%.

The Steelers by contrast had an average Score% percentile of 71.74%, with four teams in the 21 season stretch that cracked the 90th percentile (2004, 2005, 2008, and 2010). None of those four were on the 100th percentile.

On the other end of the spectrum, the Cardinals from 1977 to 2007 have possibly the worst extended stretch of regular season play ever. They are averaging a percentile of 24.73% over those 31 seasons; with only four teams that are above the 50th percentile (1983, 1984, 1993 and 1994). Their 2008 Super Bowl appearance notwithstanding, that percentile only rises to 25.32% if you extend the stretch to 2012. I'd have to double check, but I'm pretty sure their win percentage is below .400 for a stretch that long too.

For that matter, the Cardinals stretch from 1977-2007 has a lower percentile in its time than the asset line that technically became the Colts had before the Colts are acknowledged to have started (Dayton Triangles, Brooklyn Dodgers, Yanks and 1952 Dallas Texans who combined for a 28.44% percentile).

Nice stat drop, Fever! Man, the Cards...despite the actual playoff berth and win, it certainly makes sense '98 not making the 50+ percentile cut. And Bugel's 7-9 installment in '93 has always been spoken of with respect in this forum. I guess the abbreviated 5-4 campaign in '82 came up just short.

It makes sense that just those four Steeler seasons you mention being the only ones at over 90 percentile. I'll guess that '11 (12-4) & '17 (13-3) are the top-two of all the others.

And all those Dallas ones! Did you accidentally leave out 1977? Quite surprising if that isn't a mistake! '68 not being there is also a surprise with '72 absent a notable as well. And you'd think that 12-2 start in '83 would be enough.


Thinking about all of this, getting off the ’65-thru-'85/'04-thru-'24 subject, I really think that it shouldn't be a debate anymore as to who is better between those two one-time Steeler Lombardi winners. Tomlin sure has got the no-losing-seasons in his historic favor over just about anyone; but eight straight seasons, now, without a playoff win in contrast to Cowher's overall deeper playoff runs, specifically having made it to the CCG twice as many times, 6 to 3, has to really give Cowher the nod. Yes, Bill inherited a Steeler team with the cupboard already full, but same with Tomlin inheriting what Cowher further established - though I give significantly more credit to Tomlin for his 2008 title; it was truly his team by Year Two.

And then I think of Cowher vs Landry overall. No, Tom is still better with me. But upon some inspection, is it really lopsided as I may have conveyed in this thread's OP? Landry's time in Dallas, 29 seasons, is essentially twice as long as Cowher's 15 seasons in the 'Burgh. If you double Cowher's CCG-berths it equals Landry's at twelve. Double his SB-berths and he's only one behind, double his SB-wins and both are tied. Cowher won eight divisions which is more than half of how many Landry won (13)! Playoff berths? Also more than half with Bill at 10, Tom at 18.

Of course we'll never know how Cowher would have done had he stayed in the 'Burgh another 15 seasons, matching/doubling those accolades or not. But a big argument against what I wrote in the last paragraph would be Landry, indeed, taking over a true-blue expansion team thus those bad seasons at first. And he also has 'innovator' status at his disposal as well. However much better Fedora was than the Chin, I think we can agree that he wasn't...'twice' as good given all I just offered.

[SeahawkFever]

Nice stat drop, Fever! Man, the Cards...despite the actual playoff berth and win, it certainly makes sense '98 not making the 50+ percentile cut. And Bugel's 7-9 installment in '93 has always been spoken of with respect in this forum. I guess the abbreviated 5-4 campaign in '82 came up just short.

In 1982, by Score% differential, the Cardinals are actually only on the 33.33 percentile; ranking 19th and finishing in front of nine teams and behind 18 others. Interestingly they don't even show up as the worst playhoff team in 1982 statistically (Atlanta ranked 20th, and New England ranked 23rd).

St. Louis was only on the 26th percentile offensively, but 51st defensively while being handed an above average schedule for difficulty purposes (62nd percentile by opponents score%)

And all those Dallas ones! Did you accidentally leave out 1977? Quite surprising if that isn't a mistake! '68 not being there is also a surprise with '72 absent a notable as well. And you'd think that 12-2 start in '83 would be enough.

For the Cowboys 1977 ranked 4th by my metric, which puts them on the 88.89 percentile. The three teams in front of them in order were the Rams, Broncos, and Raiders. They show up as the second best offense only to Oakland, on the 59th percentile defensively, and were handed a fairly easy schedule that put them on the 25th percentile by that.

In 1968, the Cowboys similarly ranked 4th that season at an even 88th percentile with the Colts, Chiefs and Jets in front of them. They were on the 76th percentile offensively, and 88th defensively, while being handed the easiest schedule in the league in 1968 (so 0th percentile there)

In 1983, the Cowboys ranked 5th by the metric at the percentile of 85.19 with the Redskins, Dolphins, 49ers, and Raiders in front of them. Their offense was on the 88.89 percentile trailing only Washington, San Francisco and Atlanta, their defense was on the 55th percentile, and their schedule was harder than average, putting them on the 59th percentile among schedules.

[Brian wolf]

Looking at the talent--not to mention having Big Ben--that the Steelers have had since 2008, its still disappointing that Tomlin hasnt achieved more. Its tough with Brady and Mahomes in his conference but the playoff defenses have been confounding. He will make the HOF but without another young, talented QB--since they gave up on Pickett and let Wilson a veteran, walk--he might not ever lead the Steelers to another championship. If Rodgers could do it, it would be a great story but he has to be healthy all year and of course the defense playing to their ability ...