1998

[7DnBrnc53]

I don't know having a head coach that had been to and won as many conference title games as Dan Reeves, for some of the calls that Dennis Green was making late in that game are just unforgivable to me. If you can't coach it doesn't matter how much talent you have on the field that is a big reason why I love the sport as much as I do. Dennis Green wasn't in Dan Reeves' league as a head coach. The smarter football team won that game. If they were making bad decisions like that in a home playoff game imagine with all the stress and pressure of a Super Bowl after media week how bad that Vikings team gets blown out by Denver in XXIII against Mike Shannahan and Kubiak. Would have been ugly.

I don't think that Reeves was an elite HC. It's just that Green was so bad. He was almost fired in 1997 (he may have been if they lost the WC game to the Giants like they should have).

[Brian wolf]

You can blame Dennis Green but the players blew that game against Atlanta. Robert Smith ran well on that drive but kept going out of bounds, instead of running down the clock. Then, Gary Anderson misses his first FG of the year. The Vikings defense then allowed a TD drive in a little over a minute. The Falcons just took that game. Other than Tim Dwight, no other Falcons player stepped up in the SB. Anderson ran well but had a huge fumble. Tony Martin would catch a pass and immediately step out of bounds, a non-contact habit he had been doing since he joined the team. Another bad Reeves loss. Yet he has just as much case for the HOF as Levy or Grant.

[ShinobiMusashi]

I watched the 1998 Pro Bowl, I never realized Elway played in this game and that Super Bowl XXXII wasn't his last game really. Also was really shocked at how hard the game was played, there were some hits that would have got players ejected today and they didn't even get a flag, in the pro bowl. Keyshawn and Steve Young both took pretty good head shots during the game. I thought trotting Jamal Anderson out there for the Pro Bowl after carrying the ball 600 times that season was getting a bit greedy. The players really played to win this game, the commentary was great too.

[conace21]

Ive watched a lot of Dolphins games and covered them a lot in this thread already. They had the #1 defense in 98 with a killer secondary, young Jason Taylor, and Zach Thomas looking like Dick Butkus all year. They had an ok running game and 2 ok receivers, maybe not the best offensive line with Richmond Webb starting to get old and exposed as not that great of a run blocker. Dan Marino really didn't have the best season himself, throwing for 15 interceptions(after living through the Brock Osweiler season of 2016 I've always used his 15 interceptions that year as a gage for what a lot of interceptions are for a QB in a season, 15 is a lot that really kills a football team's season). The Dolphins finished 10-6 through it all but watching through the games I noticed 3 or 4 losses that were solely on Marino, some due to fumbles in the pocket in the worst situations that would cost them wins. Still Miami would take down their rival Bills in the Wild Card and had a chance against Denver in the second round. They would play without either starting defensive end and stood no chance, would lose a 38-3 blowout. I got to say of all the blown opportunities Marino had to make it back to a Super Bowl he really had a big chance here in 98 and a lot of the blame for them not making it falls on him. Sure Marino needed more firepower on offense, but With the top defense in the NFL Miami should have at least got to the AFCCG in 98 if he was as great as he was supposed to be. This should have been a 12-4 team, instead Marino really fumbled the season away and let the Jets take their division and the #2 seed.

I have several issues with this analysis of Miami, and Marino.
First off, you can't use the same 15 interception gage over several decades. 15 interceptions in 2016 is very different from 15 interceptions in 1998. Marino's 15 interceptions were the 10th most in the NFL in 1998, but that's a product of so many quarterbacks missing time, and it was nothing new. Marino's 2.8 INT % was actually tied for the 11th lowest in the NFL that season (among qualifiers.) And 1998 marked the 9th time in his career that he had thrown at least 15 interceptions, which includes his 1984 MVP season, and his other two All Pro seasons.

It looks like Marino did have 3 lost fumbles in the 4th quarter of losses. The Jets returned it for the clinching touchdown. The Bills recovered to set up a tying FG. (They later drove for the go-ahead FG.) Jacksonville recovered to kill a potential tying drive. But I don't think you can place too much blame on him. Miami had the worst running game in the NFL, in terms of yards per carry.

And in the loss to Denver, Marino didn't perform well. But Miami ran 13 times for 14 yards in the game. The NFL's #1 defense allowed Denver to drive for touchdowns on each of their three first half drives (besides running the clock out at the end of the half.) They then let Denver drive for a field goal at the start of the second half. Miami's defense folded completely in the playoff loss and is as much to blame as Marino.

[ShinobiMusashi]

You make some great points but after watching through so many games of the 98 Dolphins, I'm convinced there has been a growing narrative since his playing days that Dan not getting a ring was a lot of other people's fault. This 1998 season he deserves a lot of the blame, he had a tremendous opportunity with this defense he had and literally fumbled the season away with those Brock Osweiler style fumbles in the pocket costing them 3 huge games(the big one being the Jets rematch at home in Miami with division title on the line). Not just the fumble in the Jets game but he threw some pretty terrible ints in that game that were squarely on him too. Those fumbles have never come up in anything I've ever seen about Marino's career, instead its always the lack of run game or no defense. They didn't have super powers around him on offense no, but there was no reason he couldn't have led this team to a 12-4 finish with that defense in 98 by protecting the ball better than he did that year. I'll give them a pass for losing in Denver with both starting DE's out hurt but they never should have even been in that wild card round in 98 and should have been hosting a divisional round game.

I'm not hating on Dan he was great but I'm starting to see some smoke to the fire, a lot of the 72 Dolphins don't cut him any slack and are really critical of his time in Miami, I can see why now. There used to be a show on ESPN Classic called "Top 5 Reasons You Can't Blame...", with a full episode on examining why it wasn't Dan's fault he never won a ring. Then there are some of Shula's Dolphins on there saying that yes, you can in fact blame Dan for that.

[ShinobiMusashi]

Marino for me falls into the Barry Sanders category. I hate to talk negative about their careers because they were amazing and two of my favorites to watch, but these guys careers have been overly romanticized and they are built up now like they were all time bests at their positions and there's just this litany revision history excuses for why they never won Championships. Those guys were special attraction entertaining players that were fun to watch but neither was ever going to ever carry any teams to a title, they just weren't cut from that cloth, but at the same time they were larger than life superstars that overshadowed whatever teams they played for, both had freakish once in a lifetime talent, almost to the point where it was like they existed on a separate plane from the rest of their respective teams. That is not a championship winning dynamic for a sport where it's 11 vs 11 on the field.

[74_75_78_79_]

Marino for me falls into the Barry Sanders category. I hate to talk negative about their careers because they were amazing and two of my favorites to watch, but these guys careers have been overly romanticized and they are built up now like they were all time bests at their positions and there's just this litany revision history excuses for why they never won Championships. Those guys were special attraction entertaining players that were fun to watch but neither was ever going to ever carry any teams to a title, they just weren't cut from that cloth, but at the same time they were larger than life superstars that overshadowed whatever teams they played for, both had freakish once in a lifetime talent, almost to the point where it was like they existed on a separate plane from the rest of their respective teams. That is not a championship winning dynamic for a sport where it's 11 vs 11 on the field.

Reading this article makes me cringe a bit...https://johnbaranowski.wordpress.com/20 ... an-marino/

I never declared Dan as being totally blameless in his playoff/SB-win(s) shortcomings. You win as a team, you lose as a team. But reading that, and further details and examples given, tightens it up some for someone who would still like to see him in a Legandary light, #13 did want to pass the ball as much as possible even if wanting to do so too much, this I already knew. Yes, it would have been nice had Steelers got him in '83. But I always did opine that getting Phil Simms would have, perhaps, maybe been just as fine.

Barry Sanders didn't want any other RB in the backfield with him. I always felt winning a championship with just one back in the backfield would be problematic. You need to have that blocking back, I'd think, along with that other back being a power-back to complement things. Most of his career involved he being pulled from the backfield in goal-line situations. And, at least early on, when breaking away he would get caught from behind just before making the end-zone (if memory serves well, I do remember him greatly improving that in the end). Juking-out tacklers, causing that ACL to Rod Woodson in the '95 opener, seemed to be his specialty. Great highlight-reel stuff, a 1st Ballot HOFer, but perhaps lacking certain things as already aforementioned thus preventing him from being on Jim Brown's level (as his own father would opine to him) along with those other 'All-Time Great' RBs of that very tier. He being all by himself in the backfield not, really, a recipe for a team winning a World Championship. Much to blame throughout for Detroit's '90s playoff shortcomings, overall more-so than Sanders. Why ever have a run-n-shoot in the first place?? #20, sadly, not completely blameless either (-1 yard vs GB in that playoff game such a haunting stat).

Dan wanted to pass more often than maybe he should have, Barry wanted to be all alone in the backfield, and Peyton Manning wanted to do-it-all, be the OC & GM as well, along with - without even having to say anything - influencing management to "not dare" pick a QB ever in any of the early rounds. I once felt that his 'artillery' in that old he-vs-Brady debate was the fact that Indy fell all the way to 2-14 in the year he was out as opposed to the Pats finishing 11-5 with Cassel. But some of you in here helped me flip that logic.

It's all about winning championships. Tom Brady was fine-enough with stronger backup QBs and not feeling he having to do everything. Peyton could have very easily had a zero titles career if the wind blew just right. 2006, though a deserved title to me, had a bit of that "stars-aligned" vibe to it, and 2015...well, you know. I'm glad #18 ended up getting some Hardware (and wish #13 & #20 would have as well), but he was someone who wanted to 'do-it-all' while in Indy. Understandable as also the case with Marino and Sanders, that's being a competitor, but a certain coach or management team simply implementing that team concept can tone something like that down. Like one of you said previously, Elway once being a QB who early in his career felt he had to 'do it all' and then won two SBs a different way, was the very GM who set it all straight upon #18 showing up at Mile High.


1998 - Dan was on his way out, Peyton just getting started, Barry's final season. I'll say it yet again...much fan-dome to come, still a fan today, but general-excitement going into a season and throughout the entire season and looking back at it, 1998 thus far is still seen by myself as the last peak; and this, of course, despite my Steelers collapsing, this despite the SB itself being one of the all-time snoozers (I was still excited going into the 'Elway/Shanny vs Dan Reeves' showdown, predicting it'd go into OT). Not my favorite season since following, but no season since has matched it as far as, again, general fan-dome before, throughout, and after.

[Brian wolf]

That Baranowski article on Marino was interesting but skewed as well. The NFL was a much different era in Marino's prime back then, where every QB could and would throw interceptions.

Yes, Marino had some bad playoff games but also had to bring the Dolphins back from huge deficits as well, especially against NE in the 85 AFC Championship, 1984/85 SB against SF, 1990 Div against Buff, 1995 WC against Buff, 1998 Div against Denver. Even his rookie year, despite a great defensive year for his team, the defense allowed Seattle to play smashmouth, ball control football in the playoff upset. The Browns did the same thing in a 85 Div game but Marino rallied the team. The Chiefs in a 1990 WC also built a ball control lead with Marino leading a comeback win. Marino could have played a better game against Jax in the 1999 Div but it wouldnt have mattered, the defense had another bad game.

Even with postseason interceptions, Marino was going to throw know matter what, and down the field. In todays game, QBs barely throw for over 25 yards on any pass play, with receivers getting most of the yardage after a short catch. I guess thats why they get paid more than any other position besides QB. I still feel for what receivers make nowadays, they dont get into the endzone enough. Very few receivers today score like Mark Clayton did for Marino. In fact, in the history of the Dolphins franchise, only five receivers have caught 30 TDs or more, and three of those played for Marino.

What really grabbed me about the article was Marino throwing so many interceptions in college football. He definitely cost the Panthers in some of those games but like in the pros, he had that gunslinger confidence like Namath or Favre, that he could complete passes no matter what the defense did.