Will Now Be The Time For Jim Tyrer?

[rewing84]

Whats your take on Ray Lewis, SixtiesFan? Do you feel he should have been elected to the HOF? I felt--and still feel--he was an accomplice to murder but got full legal representation and private investigators from the Ravens. His buddies got away with it in self defense but do we really know what happened that night? Did Lewis watch his friends stab two men, though his own limo driver told police--recanted on the witness stand--that he was involved in the melee, while later dumping bloody clothes?

I know the Tyrer situation is a tragedy. I just feel that the HOF should allow his induction based on their own bylaws and voting rules. Voters can easily deny him and probably will for the sake of future tourist, public relations, but they never had a problem with Lewis--or keeping OJ Simpson--and it shouldnt be a problem with Tyrer either, but we wont know until they elect him.

Tyrer shouldn't be inducted into the Hall of Fame, and I'll be shocked if it happens. Ray Lewis was found not guilty and went on to play another decade without incident. OJ Simpson, let's be real, murdered his ex-wife nine years after his Hall of Fame induction, but was acquitted. Junior Seau committed suicide due to CTE, like Tyrer, only Seau never killed anyone else. Tyrer's last act in life, which is indisputable, was killing his wife, the mother of his children. There's no gray area in his case. Sure, he probably had CTE, but that's not a get out of jail free card. For as much as the NFL claims to champion women, do we really think they'll want the publicity of electing Tyrer to the Hall of Fame, regardless of his playing career accomplishments? "Well, yes, he murdered his wife, BUT he was an eight-time All-Pro." It's just not going to happen.

Yes. 100% on the money here. I'd be shocked if he's admitted. Regardless of the wishes of his family, or the HOF, and NFL operating "separately." I just can't see the voters, or enough of them consciously going to bat for a murderer. Regardless of circumstance or context that's what Tyrer is.

I second that 100% Inducting or selecting Tyrer would cause
A massive headache

[JohnTurney]

Out of curiosity, has Jim Tyrer ever come this close to making it into Canton?

Tyrer was on the Final 15 in 1981 ... but it is not known if he made first cut to ten or not.

This is first time he's been a finalists since ...

[rewing84]

tried to find any information about the 1981 HOF Voting John But couldnt find anything

[JuggernautJ]

tried to find any information about the 1981 HOF Voting John But couldnt find anything

1981 votes in the round of 15:
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... ballot.htm

The Hall of Fame list of Finalists includes how many times someone made it to the finalist round.
As 1981 looks to be Tyrer's first time as a finalist it stands to reason he was not one previously.
(Also he retired after the 1974 season so 1980 would've been the first year he was eligible.)

https://www.profootballhof.com/hall-of- ... finalists/

[rewing84]

tried to find any information about the 1981 HOF Voting John But couldnt find anything

1981 votes in the round of 15:
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... ballot.htm

The Hall of Fame list of Finalists includes how many times someone made it to the finalist round.
As 1981 looks to be Tyrer's first time as a finalist it stands to reason he was not one previously.
(Also he retired after the 1974 season so 1980 would've been the first year he was eligible.)

https://www.profootballhof.com/hall-of- ... finalists/

Appreciate the info JJ

[KPda2thed]

He was a finalist the first year of eligibility. While it notes "1981", Tyrer submitted his retirement so late in the year he retired that he wasn't considered in 1980.

Regarding the "get out of jail free card" - it's the same thing as saying CTE is "an excuse." That's really inadequate. Context, explanation, and understanding is not at all the same thing as a get out of jail free card or an excuse. If you research his playing career and life and talk to both his contemporaries and family, it will become clear that he was uniquely at risk and dramatically changed. The scales are heavily tipped in favor of evidence of brain trauma as opposed to immorality and character flaws. This is not a guess or a hoped-for - it's the evidence. And that's why he became a finalist this year. Moral reasoning, ironically, is the function of the the prefrontal cortex... the very area destroyed by CTE.

As for whether everyone would be shocked if it happens... well, everyone was shocked when he got to the finals so... it's a dog chasing its tail to use a prediction as the basis for consideration.

Sorry guys - we've got to do better with this.

But back to the original point - who knows the origin of the bylaws???

[KPda2thed]

Whats your take on Ray Lewis, SixtiesFan? Do you feel he should have been elected to the HOF? I felt--and still feel--he was an accomplice to murder but got full legal representation and private investigators from the Ravens. His buddies got away with it in self defense but do we really know what happened that night? Did Lewis watch his friends stab two men, though his own limo driver told police--recanted on the witness stand--that he was involved in the melee, while later dumping bloody clothes?

I know the Tyrer situation is a tragedy. I just feel that the HOF should allow his induction based on their own bylaws and voting rules. Voters can easily deny him and probably will for the sake of future tourist, public relations, but they never had a problem with Lewis--or keeping OJ Simpson--and it shouldnt be a problem with Tyrer either, but we wont know until they elect him.

Tyrer shouldn't be inducted into the Hall of Fame, and I'll be shocked if it happens. Ray Lewis was found not guilty and went on to play another decade without incident. OJ Simpson, let's be real, murdered his ex-wife nine years after his Hall of Fame induction, but was acquitted. Junior Seau committed suicide due to CTE, like Tyrer, only Seau never killed anyone else. Tyrer's last act in life, which is indisputable, was killing his wife, the mother of his children. There's no gray area in his case. Sure, he probably had CTE, but that's not a get out of jail free card. For as much as the NFL claims to champion women, do we really think they'll want the publicity of electing Tyrer to the Hall of Fame, regardless of his playing career accomplishments? "Well, yes, he murdered his wife, BUT he was an eight-time All-Pro." It's just not going to happen.

Yes, Ray Lewis was acquitted and, as you say, played another decade without incident. Jim Tyrer would have been convicted of first degree murder had he shot only his wife, and sentenced to life without parole. Would he be worthy of the HOF had he killed "only" his wife?

To repeat, the evidence is Tyrer didn't blow up on the spur of the moment, but according to his children appeared to be planning it beforehand.

Pointing out that "the evidence is Tyrer didn't 'blow up' on the spur of the moment" I guess means that you don't think it had to do with CTE? Because CTE and pre-meditation can't go together? That's actually not correct. Chris Nowinski has spoken on this point and noted that it's a fundamental misunderstanding of how damage to the prefrontal cortex works (or doesn't when it's damaged.) A significantly damaged brain doesn't simply misfire in acts of rage... it can plan and premeditate. It's just a terrible plan and an ugly premeditation. His was not a case of rage (his wife was sleeping) but a case of planning that wasn't consistent with who he was until the decline.

[JohnTurney]

He was a finalist the first year of eligibility. While it notes "1981", Tyrer submitted his retirement so late in the year he retired that he wasn't considered in 1980.

Tyrer was on the preliminary list in 1980, a finalist in 1981, then on preliminary list from 1982-86, meaning someone was nominating him or getting some votes, enough to carry over.

Then he made his resurgence this year on seniors' list

[KPda2thed]

Hmm. Was aware of the prelim list after ‘81 but not ‘80. May I ask how you confirmed?

[JohnTurney]

Hmm. Was aware of the prelim list after ‘81 but not ‘80. May I ask how you confirmed?

For one it was mentioned in papers at the time and also from the Hall. They have a list of prelims, semis, finalists, etc. And Tyrer is on it beginning in 1980.

There are a few examples of guys who retired the summer after their final season who were on prelim, finals or even elected five years after their final season (i.e. add six to final season).