1967 Blues for the Browns

Saban1
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Re: 1967 Blues for the Browns

Post by Saban1 »

Saban1 wrote: Wed Oct 02, 2024 8:07 pm So, if the Eastern Conference in 1967 stayed the same as it was in 1966 (not divided into 2 divisions), then the Cleveland Browns would have certainly finished 2nd to the Dallas Cowboys, as they did in 1966. I guess the difference would have been that in 1966, the Browns were unlucky and had a tougher schedule whereas in 1967, Dallas was just better.

As it was, Cleveland was lucky in 1967. The Giants, who split wins in their 2 games with Cleveland, were unlucky to lose in their games with Washington and Minnesota. Cleveland was lucky to win both games with the Cardinals, and their games with Minnesota and with Washington.

To be fair about it, the Browns were unlucky in their first game with the New York Giants ( A blocked punt that went out of bounds on the 2 yard line that was quickly turned into 6 points by the Giants. A fumbled kickoff that was also turned into another 6 points. Both running backs Leroy Kelly and Ernie Green knocked out of the game (not an accident). A shanked punt that hit a Browns player on the leg as he was running down the field to try
to help set up a return and the Giants recovered.

So everything went right for the Giants that day and it all went wrong for Cleveland as the Giants prevailed, 38 to 34. Cleveland also gave away their last game with Philadelphia playing their reserves as their division was clinched. Cleveland had 4 turnovers as well as the blocked punt (their first in many years and the first for Gary Collins) in the Giants game.

OK, change some of those games around and the Giants might have actually won the Century Division in 1967 instead of Cleveland. Of course, the Giants were the worst team in the NFL in 1966 and maybe pro football history.
And so, The Cleveland Browns not only had an easy schedule in 1967 only playing three games with teams with a winning record out of 14 games and also played in a weak division (the Century Division) with the Browns being the only team with a winning record, but they were also lucky to win a bunch of their games. I guess that all teams can have an off year sometimes, and 1967 was it for the Cleveland Browns of that era.

How the New York Giants, who were one of the worst teams in pro football history in 1966 could be a serious threat to the Browns in 1967 is beyond me. I know that the Giants got Fran Tarkenton in 1967, and he made a difference, but the Giants defense was still bad. Even though having Tarkenton kept the defense off the field more and generally left them with better field position most of the time, the Giants were tied with New Orleans for number of points allowed. In 1967, New Orleans was a new franchise.
Saban1
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Re: 1967 Blues for the Browns

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Saban1 wrote: Wed Oct 02, 2024 8:07 pm So, if the Eastern Conference in 1967 stayed the same as it was in 1966 (not divided into 2 divisions), then the Cleveland Browns would have certainly finished 2nd to the Dallas Cowboys, as they did in 1966. I guess the difference would have been that in 1966, the Browns were unlucky and had a tougher schedule whereas in 1967, Dallas was just better.

As it was, Cleveland was lucky in 1967. The Giants, who split wins in their 2 games with Cleveland, were unlucky to lose in their games with Washington and Minnesota. Cleveland was lucky to win both games with the Cardinals, and their games with Minnesota and with Washington.

To be fair about it, the Browns were unlucky in their first game with the New York Giants ( A blocked punt that went out of bounds on the 2 yard line that was quickly turned into 6 points by the Giants. A fumbled kickoff that was also turned into another 6 points. Both running backs Leroy Kelly and Ernie Green knocked out of the game (not an accident). A shanked punt that hit a Browns player on the leg as he was running down the field to try
to help set up a return and the Giants recovered.

So everything went right for the Giants that day and it all went wrong for Cleveland as the Giants prevailed, 38 to 34. Cleveland also gave away their last game with Philadelphia playing their reserves as their division was clinched. Cleveland had 4 turnovers as well as the blocked punt (their first in many years and the first for Gary Collins) in the Giants game.

OK, change some of those games around and the Giants might have actually won the Century Division in 1967 instead of Cleveland. Of course, the Giants were the worst team in the NFL in 1966 and maybe pro football history.
About Cleveland's loss to the Giants in 1967: One thing that I overlooked in that game that was important to the outcome of the game was Gogolak's 47 yard field goal that increased the Giants lead to 4 points near the end of the game, 38 to 34. That meant that the Browns then needed a touchdown to win instead of a field goal, and Cleveland was on around the Giants 30 yard line in their last series.

Gogolak's field goal just barely made it over the crossbar, but it made the score 38 to 34 instead of 35 to 34. If Gogolak had missed that 47 yard try, then the Browns still could have won the game with a Groza field goal, and it would have been in his range. So, like I wrote before, everything just went right for the Giants that day. That was one game in 1967 that the Browns were unlucky.
Saban1
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Re: 1967 Blues for the Browns

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Saban1 wrote: Fri Aug 30, 2019 3:53 pm Ninowski's numbers were terrible with Detroit but they got better after he got back to Cleveland. He seemed to get better with years and I honestly think he may have been an improvement on Ryan in 1967, at least in parts of that year. They could have rested Ryan more and let him recover more from his injuries if they still had Nino.
Also wonder why they did not play Dick Shiner more often? They could have rested Ryan when they played Shiner. I guess that the Browns coaching staff must not have had confidence that Shiner could do the job, even though Frank Ryan was having his worst ever year with Cleveland.
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74_75_78_79_
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Re: 1967 Blues for the Browns

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'67 Browns their "worst" installment of the '60s despite making the playoffs? May very well be right. Out of, now, sixteen teams they finished 10th in offense and 12th in defense; and gave up more total yardage than they gained (by almost 600). However, Y/P-wise, they still finished ahead, 5.0 to 4.9. And PD-wise they were a plus-37.

Again, they may indeed be the worst and simply benefited from a weak little division to get that actual playoff berth. But I think that Paul Brown's final two installments should at least be mentioned. That, of course, would be '61 (8-5-1) and '62 (7-6-1).

The first of both seems quite better. Middle-of-the-road #7 (out of 14 teams) in both O & D and positive across-the-board in points, total yardage, and Y/P. But they suffered some lopsided losses as well to both Green Bay, 49-17, and to the Giants, 37-21 - both at home.

In '62, the 7-6-1 campaign, they dropped to 11th on offense but improved to #3 at D (#3 points-wise as well). They also were across-the-board positive in everything (Y/P a plus-point-six), did score some lopsided wins as well, but suffered blow-outs at Philly, home vs Balt, and at Dallas late.

Yeah, '67 still seems weaker with me.


Of course staying in Cleveland may have generated a few ripple-effects. God only knows how many and what exact effect it all would have had results-wise. But just imagine the Browns staying in Cleveland and everything turning out for them exactly how things have been 1996-present with the Ravens all along (and meanwhile, the 'Crows' being the struggling-since-'99 expansion franchise instead - if they'd still even be around, that is)! All those extra playoff campaigns including two extra World Championships! One of those on the 50th season anniversary of their tie-breaker game with...the Giants and the other, twelve years later, making us remember who the two best teams in the AAFC were. Steroids added to the Browns/Steelers rivalry! John Harbaugh the second-best HC in the franchise's (extra-storied) history.
Saban1
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Re: 1967 Blues for the Browns

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About Paul Brown's last 2 seasons with Cleveland (1961 and 1962):

Art Modell bought the team in 1961 and there was almost immediately friction between him and PB. Modell tried to get closer to the team and started to undermine Brown's coaching. This is in Paul Brown's book, "PB the Paul Brown Story" which is out of print now, but I think that most big city libraries probably have copies (maybe some small cities too).

Anyway, some players have confirmed what was said in Brown's book. So, with Modell being friendly with the players and talking against Brown, it had to be tough to win with the team divided like it was. Of course, Brown was fired after the 1962 season. One telling remark by Jim Brown was that he wanted to get in the best shape he could to show that the team's success was not just because of Paul Brown.

Jim Brown set an NFL record gaining over 1800 yards in 1963. Compare that to 1962 when he gained less than 1000 yards and cost the Browns a game with the Redskins by lateraling the ball to a Washington player who then ran for a TD. A team's attitude can make a lot of difference. In 1963, the Browns also had Frank Ryan and Gary Collins as starters right from the start of the season.

Despite all that, Cleveland still finished second to the Giants in 1963. In 1964, the Browns got a couple of pretty good rookies named Paul Warfield and Leroy Kelly. Also, the Browns nemesis in the east, the New York Giants collapsed and fell all the way to last place, and Pittsburgh also fell back some, leaving the Cardinals as the Browns only real competition in the east until Dallas got good.
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Re: 1967 Blues for the Browns

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A couple of other things. Paul Brown hinted in his book that Jim Brown knew that Paul Brown was going to be fired after the 1962 season. That does not surprise me at all. Art Modell got real friendly with Jim Brown after buying the Browns in 1961. So, I am sure that Modell told Jim that he was going to fire PB. Art did tell Commissioner Pete Rozelle around the 1962 mid-season (I read that someplace).

So, I am sure that Art Modell told other people as well. I believe that Art told Jim Brown about the same time he told Rozelle. In the third last game of the 1962 season against Dallas, I read that Jim Brown did not block blitzers allowing them to sack the quarterback and maybe make other tackles. What the heck, the team was out of contention by then and the coach was going to be fired anyway.

That was the first time that Cleveland lost to Dallas and they did not lose to them again until 1966. I think that PB suspected that he was going to be fired even though he did have a long term contract with Cleveland. His wife said that he knew it was coming.
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Re: 1967 Blues for the Browns

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Saban1 wrote: Tue Oct 08, 2024 12:31 am That was the first time that Cleveland lost to Dallas and they did not lose to them again until 1966. I think that PB suspected that he was going to be fired even though he did have a long term contract with Cleveland. His wife said that he knew it was coming.
Paul Brown would coach against Landry only one more time. And that would be eleven years later again at Dallas, and again a blowout loss to them, 38-10. It would drop his Bengals to 4-4, but they’d win the rest of their regular season games to post a 10-4 record and division title (the ‘heart’ of that streak burying the 10-1 SB-bound Vikings, 27-0, in Wk#12).

What brought on the rift between Paul and Jim/Art? Sort of like ‘The Bronx Zoo’ (Martin vs Reggie/George) but, of course, without the overt drama. Was it the way PB utilized JB the years leading up? Perhaps Jim filling Art in upon his arrival? Perhaps Art and Paul simply not hitting it off from the get-go?

Sure-enough Modell and Steinbrenner knew each other well, given Ohio and all.
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Re: 1967 Blues for the Browns

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74_75_78_79_ wrote: Tue Oct 08, 2024 8:30 am
Saban1 wrote: Tue Oct 08, 2024 12:31 am That was the first time that Cleveland lost to Dallas and they did not lose to them again until 1966. I think that PB suspected that he was going to be fired even though he did have a long term contract with Cleveland. His wife said that he knew it was coming.
Paul Brown would coach against Landry only one more time. And that would be eleven years later again at Dallas, and again a blowout loss to them, 38-10. It would drop his Bengals to 4-4, but they’d win the rest of their regular season games to post a 10-4 record and division title (the ‘heart’ of that streak burying the 10-1 SB-bound Vikings, 27-0, in Wk#12).

What brought on the rift between Paul and Jim/Art? Sort of like ‘The Bronx Zoo’ (Martin vs Reggie/George) but, of course, without the overt drama. Was it the way PB utilized JB the years leading up? Perhaps Jim filling Art in upon his arrival? Perhaps Art and Paul simply not hitting it off from the get-go?

Sure-enough Modell and Steinbrenner knew each other well, given Ohio and all.
Jim Brown said that PB never invited him to his home which Paul Brown said that he never invited his players into his home, but after they were retired, their relationships would be different and he did have some of his former players at his house. I am sure that Art Modell did have JB at his house or apartment and anything else to be buddies with him, but Art did not have to try to coach the team.

Modell wanted to eventually run the team himself. Firing Brown and replacing him with Blanton Collier as coach only (not GM), Art did get to run the team himself and make all trades and other major moves. Some were moving Cleveland into the AFC in 1970, trading Paul Warfield to Miami for Mike Phipps, trading Ron Johnson and Jim Kanicki to the Giants for Homer Jones, trading Jack Gregory to the Giants, etc. He also moved the team to Baltimore.
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Re: 1967 Blues for the Browns

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I remember during the 1971 season, Art Modell was quoted saying, "I traded Paul Warfield?" Modell seemed incredulous that he had done it. Art Modell was happy when he was able to announce Paul Warfield's return to the Browns in 1976.
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Re: 1967 Blues for the Browns

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About the comparison of the 1961 and 1962 Cleveland teams to the 1967 Browns team:

The 1961 and 1962 teams played tougher schedules playing games against 6 winning teams in 1961 and 4 games with winning teams in 1962 compared to playing only 3 games against winning teams out of 14 in 1967. They also played the Baltimore Colts in 1962 who even though they were a 7 and 7 team that year, they still could be dangerous with Johnny U., Lenny Moore, Raymond Berry, Gino Marchetti, etc.

With all the problems with Modell undermining Brown's coaching, it is kind of amazing that Cleveland still managed to have a winning record in 1962. Looking at the record, you can see that the team went downhill in 1961 and 1962 from previous years after Modell bought the team.

As far as the 49 to 17 loss to Green Bay in 1961, Cleveland lost 55 to 7 to Green Bay in 1967 as well as 52 to 14 to Dallas in the 1967 playoff game. Maybe just as bad was their 31 to 14 loss to Detroit when the Browns had a 14 to 3 lead earlier on. Detroit then scored 28 unanswered points and seemed to run at will for 1st down after 1st down (29 in all), and the Browns defense seemed clueless as to how to stop them.

So, in 1967, Cleveland struggled for the most part despite the easy schedule and were terrible in three of their losses.
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