1950's Detroit Lions

[Brian wolf]

With Renfro and the great backs, you would think the Browns would open up the game more in that 1958 playoff, but the Giants were fired up and took advantage of mistakes from Plum and Ninowski. The interceptions from Heinrich early in the game kept them in it. Plum would get better in 59 and 60 but still seemed handcuffed by Paul Brown.

Since this thread is about Detroit however, you would think the team would respond better in 1959 after a disappointing 1958 season but the trading of Layne seemed to affect the team. The offensive line aged quickly and regressed and the running attack plummetted, even with John Henry Johnson. Just not enough speed at the skill positions and after a terrible season, Tobin Rote went to Canada. After winning it all in 1957, did he worry too much about Earl Morrall being over his shoulder?

[Saban1]

Around 1954 or 1955, the Giants, aspiring to be a championship team, discussed what was needed to accomplish this. The conclusion was that even though Otto Graham was soon retiring, with Paul Brown at Cleveland, the Browns were still the team that they would most have to contend with (not making this up, I read it someplace).

Giants defensive coach Tom Landry then studied Paul Brown, studying films of the Cleveland Browns and Paul Brown's play calling almost to the point of fanaticism. No football coach was ever scrutinized as much as Brown, not even Lombardi. One of the things that Landry came up with was his "Flex Defense," a defense that was difficult to run against.

So, why not pass more against the Giants and their "Flex Defense?" Well, Milt Plum seemed to have trouble passing against teams like New York and Detroit. He seemed to be able to complete passes all day against weaker teams, but had trouble against the top teams. It helped to have Jim Brown and Bobby Mitchell in the backfield. A screen pass to one of them could turn into an 80 yard play.

Andy Robustelli said that the Giants never worried about Milt Plum's passing. They felt that if they could contain the running of Jim Brown and Cleveland, then they would win. Another thing that Robustelli said/wrote is that Plum telegraphed his passes.

[Brian wolf]

Plum might have been the first example of how overrated passing statistics can be. He won two supposed "passing efficiency titles" but was traded for obvious reasons -- not clutch enough in big games. Could he have been better calling his own plays? Possibly, but even in Detroit, his leash was short with Earl Morrall over his shoulder ...

[Saban1]

Plum might have been the first example of how overrated passing statistics can be. He won two supposed "passing efficiency titles" but was traded for obvious reasons -- not clutch enough in big games. Could he have been better calling his own plays? Possibly, but even in Detroit, his leash was short with Earl Morrall over his shoulder ...

As far as Plum calling his own plays. he got his chance at Detroit, but it did not work out very well for him. You see, there was this game in Green Bay and ......

From what I have heard, Milt Plum is really a very nice man, just not a great quarterback, but most men are not that.

[Saban1]

Around 1954 or 1955, the Giants, aspiring to be a championship team, discussed what was needed to accomplish this. The conclusion was that even though Otto Graham was soon retiring, with Paul Brown at Cleveland, the Browns were still the team that they would most have to contend with (not making this up, I read it someplace).

Giants defensive coach Tom Landry then studied Paul Brown, studying films of the Cleveland Browns and Paul Brown's play calling almost to the point of fanaticism. No football coach was ever scrutinized as much as Brown, not even Lombardi. One of the things that Landry came up with was his "Flex Defense," a defense that was difficult to run against.

So, why not pass more against the Giants and their "Flex Defense?" Well, Milt Plum seemed to have trouble passing against teams like New York and Detroit. He seemed to be able to complete passes all day against weaker teams, but had trouble against the top teams. It helped to have Jim Brown and Bobby Mitchell in the backfield. A screen pass to one of them could turn into an 80 yard play.

Andy Robustelli said that the Giants never worried about Milt Plum's passing. They felt that if they could contain the running of Jim Brown and Cleveland, then they would win. Another thing that Robustelli said/wrote is that Plum telegraphed his passes.

Turns out that the Giants were right back in 1954 (or 1955). The Browns were their main rival in the east. Just look at the final standings in 1957, 1958, and 1959. Of course, in 1960, it was the Eagles and the Browns. In 1961, the Giants got Y.A. Tittle and some others named Shofner, Barnes, Walton, etc. which practically guaranteed the Giants some more Eastern Conference titles.

[Sonny9]

Plum might have been the first example of how overrated passing statistics can be. He won two supposed "passing efficiency titles" but was traded for obvious reasons -- not clutch enough in big games. Could he have been better calling his own plays? Possibly, but even in Detroit, his leash was short with Earl Morrall over his shoulder ...

I don't think 2 games is enough to judge him. the 1958 game, the 10-0 loss, Ninowski was 3-15. While for the Giants Heinrich was 1-7. Conerly did go 7-11 for 75 yards with one completion going for 35. Even with that completion 10 yards per catch is nothing to right home about imo. And the Browns had 13 carries for 25 yards which didn't help, while the Giants ran all over them.

The 1957 game O'Connell was the starter that season and Plum came in after the pic 6 and down 31-7 near the end of the first half

'59-'61 the only good teams in the East were the Giants and Philly. Plum was 4-2 vs Philly and in the 2 losses he went 18-30 329 yds 2 TD 1 int and 16-22 289 yds 2 TDs 0 ints

He didn't do well against the Giants though who usually had the best pass defense in that era.

[SixtiesFan]

Plum might have been the first example of how overrated passing statistics can be. He won two supposed "passing efficiency titles" but was traded for obvious reasons -- not clutch enough in big games. Could he have been better calling his own plays? Possibly, but even in Detroit, his leash was short with Earl Morrall over his shoulder ...

In 1961, Sport Magazine had a story on Milt Plum titled, "Plum's Has a Bulldog Inside Him." This was a quote from Paul Brown. It was one of the best titles a Sport story ever had. It's been a long time since I read it but as I recall the theme was that even though many downgraded Plum he was still a very good QB, Even then it was said that Plum wasn't as good as his stats indicated.

After the 1961 season Paul Brown traded him to Detroit for Jim Ninowski.

[Saban1]

Plum might have been the first example of how overrated passing statistics can be. He won two supposed "passing efficiency titles" but was traded for obvious reasons -- not clutch enough in big games. Could he have been better calling his own plays? Possibly, but even in Detroit, his leash was short with Earl Morrall over his shoulder ...

In 1961, Sport Magazine had a story on Milt Plum titled, "Plum's Has a Bulldog Inside Him." This was a quote from Paul Brown. It was one of the best titles a Sport story ever had. It's been a long time since I read it but as I recall the theme was that even though many downgraded Plum he was still a very good QB, Even then it was said that Plum wasn't as good as his stats indicated.

After the 1961 season Paul Brown traded him to Detroit for Jim Ninowski.

Cleveland also got Bill Glass as part of the Plum deal.