Seniors

[rewing84]

id like to know who wrote that headline saying that neither were worthy because i disagree with that author 100% in terms of jake scott not being worthy for the hall

[JohnTurney]

If you count up big plays ... INTS, FRs, and so on, Scott made more per 16 games ... Anderson though was the DPOY.

With Ken Easley getting in, that opens possibilities. But I don't think we'll see either this Sep-Oct in the seniors' finals. I think Meador will prob. remain, though -- he will be one of the safeties ---

Safeies are so hard to separate, just looking at the numbers... cannot guarantee this chart is 100% accurate ...
"consensus All-pro" is kind of subjective ... but gives a broad idea ... no eye-test or scouting of "whey they said" just what can be counted as jumping off point

2024-05-31_23-27-25.jpg (67.82 KiB) Viewed 1119 times

2024-05-31_23-27-25.jpg (67.82 KiB) Viewed 1119 times

[GameBeforeTheMoney]

I'm not quite old enough to remember either Anderson or Scott that well. But I do think it's important to bring up that Anderson played SS, Scott played FS. Anderson, he had 8 ints as a SS one year and Scott had 4. Usually that's flipped - FS has many more. Anderson had another year with 8 picks. That's a lot for a SS. Anybody remember how he did that? Was the SS on the Dolphins no-name the traditional cover the TE SS or did he have a different role?

[Brian wolf]

Anderson usually covered the tight end, back or receiver if the cornerback reacted to the flat, or short pass. Not many strong safeties have three seasons with eight interceptions but Anderson did, as well as make big hits. He was DROY in the AFL and like John said, DPOY. No doubt had he not been injured in 1975, would have been elected awhile back. Scott excelled on two strong 70s defenses and was as good a ball-hawking FS as Krause in my opinion, just didn't play as long ...

[GameBeforeTheMoney]

Anderson usually covered the tight end, back or receiver if the cornerback reacted to the flat, or short pass. Not many strong safeties have three seasons with eight interceptions but Anderson did, as well as make big hits. He was DROY in the AFL and like John said, DPOY. No doubt had he not been injured in 1975, would have been elected awhile back. Scott excelled on two strong 70s defenses and was as good a ball-hawking FS as Krause in my opinion, just didn't play as long ...

That's great info, Brian...thank you. And I only noticed that Anderson had only 2 seasons with 8 ints. 3? That's incredible.

Ken Houston, IMO, is the greatest SS ever. He had one season with 9 picks and then his next highest was 6. Palamalou - another one of the great SS, had 7 picks twice. Donnie Shell - 7 picks twice. Easley had 10 (10!) one year, and once with 7. Emlen Tunnell is listed as a SS by PFR - his pick numbers are off the charts for a SS and I'm not sure if he really played SS or FS or simply covered half the field. Perhaps someone else knows?

Those are all-time greats at the position. Anderson had three years with 8 picks at SS? AND he was DPOY? What are the arguments against him getting in? That's a pretty solid case just with those two facts.

NOTE - I realized that I typed Scott's name for both positions by accident instead of Anderson at SS in my first comment. I corrected that now.

[Brian wolf]

Yes, Jackson ... Anderson had 8 picks in his rookie season when he was DROY(shared with George Atkinson, who was exposed in the AFL Championship game) ... he would have been All-Pro had the Dolphins been a better team. I agree, Ken Houston was better but never had a chance to make the impact in the postseason that Anderson did. Despite making the 70s All-Decade team, Anderson, Harvey Martin, LC Greenwood and Louis Wright, have yet to make the HOF.

People can downplay the Dolphin's 1972 schedule all they want but this team doesn't have a Perfect Season without Scott and Anderson. Had Scott not gotten hurt in the Sea Of Hands playoff game, this team might have went to four straight SB games.

[Bryan]

id like to know who wrote that headline saying that neither were worthy because i disagree with that author 100% in terms of jake scott not being worthy for the hall

I write the headlines. I am the Dick Wolf of PFRA. It was admittedly an old headline, and I think now the HOF was been watered down, so a career like Scott's or Anderson's shouldn't be dismissed. I originally thought their 'period of effectiveness' was too short for HOF standards, but I've always thought both were HOF-talent players. I would put either guy in before some of the guys currently in the HOF and before Eddie Meador.

[JohnTurney]

Emlen Tunnell is listed as a SS by PFR - his pick numbers are off the charts for a SS and I'm not sure if he really played SS or FS or simply covered half the field. Perhaps someone else knows?

Tunnell left safety, generally, though played some CB (called defensive HB at the time, as you know). Giants didn't go strong- and free safety until 1961.

In era without TEs (the 1950s) hard to say playing the left was the SS or FS ... would depend if there was a TE ... in the 1950s there might me a end that was "tight" on both sides and the HB might motion out ... would happen both ways ... left, right -- or short or wide side ...

I am not sure you could say anyone was a SS in that era. .. Petitbon was among first ...

Another thing about Anderson and Scott ... they played using -- at least some -- what was called "double zone" which is cover-2 ... watching Dolphins games you don't see it all the time but COlts used it, Dolphins, probably several more ... and it did allow the SS to play deep some ... so Anderson did get (and Jerry Logan) more opportunities for picks than teams that ran almost all man or cover-3 ...

Back then cover-2 was kind of risky in that you had to have a lot of range... Steelers used it maybe more than anyone once Carson got there and they had safeties wit range ... Once Lambert got there, they did the "Tampa-2" because Lambert could cover a tight end.

Anyway, how much Miami use Covere-2? Don't know. If it was 10% maybe not much of a difference, but if it was 20-25% of the time on passing downs ... might give Anderson some opportunities ...

Back in 1950s, Jack Christensen was kind of both --- but once Lary got there .... more left ... though via TJ's 1950s book ... it was never just one thing ... for any of these guys. They'd move around ... Dillon, Butler,

You just didn't see the safeties look at the formation, find the TE and then align to or away ... you can see it in the 1961 NFL title game, though.

TJ would be best resource on the implementation of the SS and FS

[Brian wolf]

Shula did a great coaching job in 1975 but had to feel uneasy with stars Anderson, Fernandez, Buoniconti and Stanfill missing time due to injuries. This season would also be the last for Scott as the Dolphins with Shula would have their first losing season in 1976.

Bryan is right about Scott/Anderson having a short window of achievement but we can't discount what the team possibly could have done had Scott stayed for 76-77 and Anderson regained full health, which sadly he couldn't.

[GameBeforeTheMoney]

Emlen Tunnell is listed as a SS by PFR - his pick numbers are off the charts for a SS and I'm not sure if he really played SS or FS or simply covered half the field. Perhaps someone else knows?

Tunnell left safety, generally, though played some CB (called defensive HB at the time, as you know). Giants didn't go strong- and free safety until 1961.

In era without TEs (the 1950s) hard to say playing the left was the SS or FS ... would depend if there was a TE ... in the 1950s there might me a end that was "tight" on both sides and the HB might motion out ... would happen both ways ... left, right -- or short or wide side ...

I am not sure you could say anyone was a SS in that era. .. Petitbon was among first ...

Another thing about Anderson and Scott ... they played using -- at least some -- what was called "double zone" which is cover-2 ... watching Dolphins games you don't see it all the time but COlts used it, Dolphins, probably several more ... and it did allow the SS to play deep some ... so Anderson did get (and Jerry Logan) more opportunities for picks than teams that ran almost all man or cover-3 ...

Back then cover-2 was kind of risky in that you had to have a lot of range... Steelers used it maybe more than anyone once Carson got there and they had safeties wit range ... Once Lambert got there, they did the "Tampa-2" because Lambert could cover a tight end.

Anyway, how much Miami use Covere-2? Don't know. If it was 10% maybe not much of a difference, but if it was 20-25% of the time on passing downs ... might give Anderson some opportunities ...

Back in 1950s, Jack Christensen was kind of both --- but once Lary got there .... more left ... though via TJ's 1950s book ... it was never just one thing ... for any of these guys. They'd move around ... Dillon, Butler,

You just didn't see the safeties look at the formation, find the TE and then align to or away ... you can see it in the 1961 NFL title game, though.

TJ would be best resource on the implementation of the SS and FS

Awesome info, John. Thank you.Trying to figure out when the modern SS position started is kind of like asking who invented rock n roll. It's an evolution over time, as is the case with many formations - offense and defense. I didn't know that Petitbon was an early SS.