Rupert Patrick's PAL and PAL 2

[RRMarshall]

Re: Rupert Patrick's PAL and PAL 2
Unread postby JohnTurney » Wed Jun 28, 2023 1:11 pm

GameBeforeTheMoney wrote:
Sorry, but I have to ask what does PAL and PAL 2 mean?


It is Rupert's metric for kickers

Points Above League Average

How many points more a given kicker has versus the average kicker given same number of kicks

the higher the better

PAL2 is same thing only more detailed...

I highly recommend anyone interested in this subject to please purchase a copy of Rupert Patrick's book The Statistical History of Pro Football: Players, Teams, and Concepts. He addresses many of the issues often raised on this message board.

https://www.amazon.com/Statistical-Hist ... 320&sr=1-1

[JohnTurney]

I highly recommend anyone interested in this subject to please purchase a copy of Rupert Patrick's book The Statistical History of Pro Football: Players, Teams, and Concepts. He addresses many of the issues often raised on this message board.

https://www.amazon.com/Statistical-Hist ... 320&sr=1-1

And folks interested show know it's not just about kickers---it's got metrics on quarterbacks, running backs...it's a good read.

[GameBeforeTheMoney]

Sorry, but I have to ask what does PAL and PAL 2 mean?

It is Rupert's metric for kickers

Points Above League Average

How many points more a given kicker has versus the average kicker given same number of kicks

the higher the better

PAL2 is same thing only more detailed...

Thanks so much for filling me in. It's interesting that Lowery tops the list. I always remembered him as being the best kicker of his time and wondered why people don't really seem to talk about him much anymore.

[JohnTurney]

I always remembered him as being the best kicker of his time

That is what I remember, too. He was a slight cut above... then Morten Andersen came along and he had a bigger leg and got more pub.

As time went on Andersen went on and on and scored all those points and Lowery kind of got forgotten. Lowery was mose accurate
in the 80s and 90s.

The thing about kickers and punters is that there are so close . . . not much separation between top guys ... there is some difference
from top to middle and top to bottom guys but 80 percent compared to 78 percent...it's tight and when someone like Andersen
with an explosive leg comes along the takes the oxygen out of the room.

Andersen had more range, but Lowery was close.

Even in PAL - per season Lowery scores 8 points a season more than avg kicker, Morten Anderson 4...4 points per year difference...a field goal and extra point
PAL 2 - Lowery 7 points better than average kicker, Andersen 5...so 2 points per year difference...2 extra points

So, I don't say Lowry > Anderson but I would say the difference between the two is HOF versus never being considered ...Lowery will never get in
he will never be a senior committee nominee.

[GameBeforeTheMoney]

Totally agree. I wouldn't say Lowery was better and more deserving than Morten Andersen, but they are certainly on par with each other. It's a shame that Lowery doesn't get the same street cred historically. Time travel back to the 80s and Lowery would be right there at the top.

We are getting to a point where it is getting more difficult to split hairs with kickers, and especially with regards to the Hall of Fame. There's a fair chance that Vinitieri gets in, and right now it appears that they would be a strong chance for Tucker in the future. But then you have Lowery and Gary Anderson, and like you alluded to, likely never going to be considered.

[Brian wolf]

Gary Anderson, like Lowery, is deserving to but both may wait along time. Vinatieri is intriguing for clutch play and championships, how long before voters elect him? I would say, 5-8 years after being eligible ...

[JohnTurney]

Gary Anderson, like Lowery, is deserving to but both may wait along time. Vinatieri is intriguing for clutch play and championships, how long before voters elect him? I would say, 5-8 years after being eligible ...

Could be wrong by Gary A and Lowery, IMO, have no shot...of the 2 I would guess (based on current methods of thought) Anderson would get nod.


Vinatieri? He's a lock, but not a first-ballot lock...but no idea, 3,4,5-8 years sounds about right...

Tucker IF he keeps up current pace could be 1st ballot...but a long way to go, if he kicks as
long (or even wants to) as some of the others... in usual stats, metrics, distance, clutch kicking
, kikcing mostly outdoors in sometimes bad weather...he seems to check all the boxes.

Lowery misses a box, but Stenerud and Andersen did, too.