After going one-and-done in the playoffs for the third year in a row, Eagles' HC Buddy Ryan got the axe in Philly. That very same month in the Twin Cities, following a very disappointing 6-10 season, Floyd Peters along with OC Bob Schnelker got fired by Burnsie. Jerry was after Buddy Ryan to be his Vikings' DC in '91. Of course it would have been a reunion being that Buddy was on staff in the '70s under Bud Grant.
Schnelker? Ok. But not so sure why Sgt Rock got fired just one year removed from posting back-to-back seasons as the #1-ranked defense. Was it those back-to-back blowout exits at San Fran that placed a bad-enough taste in mouth to where all it'd take would be one bad season? The D was obviously in a temporary slump/transition state that year as well as the following year in which, even under Monte Kiffin, the unit finished at #14 - one notch beneath their 1990 ranking. Enter Dennis Green in '92, Tony Dungy now the DC, and the defense finishes at #8; and then #1 in '93!
Even if Buddy was better than all these DCs mentioned, would he really have made that much a difference in '91? And considering the unit's resurgence, it's heavily likely that Floyd Peters brings the D right back up there in '92 and especially '93. Had Buddy even became the Vikings' DC, very likely it doesn't last. A one or two-year stint until accepting the next HC offer.
Not only was Monte Kiffin an obvious good replacement as a DC in that final year of Burnsie, but Tom Moore an obvious solid choice at OC! So why were both demoted for Tony Dungy and Jack Burns respectively upon Green's arrival in '92? Did either, or both, choose to actually step aside and be in that lesser position?
Buddy Ryan was pursued as Vikings' DC for '91
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74_75_78_79_
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Re: Buddy Ryan was pursued as Vikings' DC for '91
To be honest after seeing that Houstan '93 documentary I think any team would have been smart to stay away from Buddy Ryan as the guy was truly toxic. He was a great defensive coordinator if he had the perfect set of talent and was an all around very average head coach. His ego was far bigger than the coaching talent he brought to the team.
Re: Buddy Ryan was pursued as Vikings' DC for '91
Ryan was toxic, but I wonder if he would have had a better relationship with Burns (who he coached with before) than he had with Pardee (who he seemed to step on. On that NFL Network doc about the 93 Oilers, there was a moment during that season where the whole team went off the field after Ryan told them to), who should have been fired after that 1992 WC loss to Buffalo (along with most of the staff. Also, there should have been some players traded. On an episode of NFL Live, Ray Childress was quoted as saying that there were paycheck collectors on the team).
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JohnTurney
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Re: Buddy Ryan was pursued as Vikings' DC for '91
Ryan and Burns were good friends--but remember Mike Lynn and Bud Grant still had input into stuff.
In 1985 Grant signed a lifetime contract and for the forst maybe 6 years he was part of the braintrust
he was there everyday, so on ---later under Green they used him less and less-also Lynn was gone
When Burns got the job in 1986 Schnelker and Peters were forced on Burns. Mike Lynn picked them.
They wanted Burns but were concerned he'd pick friends and not the best guys for job.
Anyway, Peters converted them to a 4-3 and converted Doleman to DE. And they did well. But Peters
wore thin--he was a loud, "about me" guy. Grant didn't like him but when you have a #1 defense
you're golden.
In 1990 - defense slumped and Peters was disliked by a lot of players, the shouting and
all that. So, it was chance to make a change.
Kiffen was there before, he was familiar with scheme, he was with Carroll who
basically ran the coveages for Peters- who handled the fronts.
Kiffen played for Grant in the CFL--so it was a good fit. Kiffen was also not
an "all about me guy"
Dungy would only come over it he was promoted to DC . . and Kiffen didn't
really care--he was glad to step down and let Dungy call the plays.
It paid off I guess--getting a lot of employment under Dungy later.
Ryan maybe would have been choice if Burns had his way but that's
not a lock, either. He like Kiffen, too.
Ryan, as we all saw, was more like Peters-a front-and-center guy
and he would have been more of what they just got rid of
so going with a more professorial guy was the ultimate choice.
And it lasted a year. So there is that.
In 1985 Grant signed a lifetime contract and for the forst maybe 6 years he was part of the braintrust
he was there everyday, so on ---later under Green they used him less and less-also Lynn was gone
When Burns got the job in 1986 Schnelker and Peters were forced on Burns. Mike Lynn picked them.
They wanted Burns but were concerned he'd pick friends and not the best guys for job.
Anyway, Peters converted them to a 4-3 and converted Doleman to DE. And they did well. But Peters
wore thin--he was a loud, "about me" guy. Grant didn't like him but when you have a #1 defense
you're golden.
In 1990 - defense slumped and Peters was disliked by a lot of players, the shouting and
all that. So, it was chance to make a change.
Kiffen was there before, he was familiar with scheme, he was with Carroll who
basically ran the coveages for Peters- who handled the fronts.
Kiffen played for Grant in the CFL--so it was a good fit. Kiffen was also not
an "all about me guy"
Dungy would only come over it he was promoted to DC . . and Kiffen didn't
really care--he was glad to step down and let Dungy call the plays.
It paid off I guess--getting a lot of employment under Dungy later.
Ryan maybe would have been choice if Burns had his way but that's
not a lock, either. He like Kiffen, too.
Ryan, as we all saw, was more like Peters-a front-and-center guy
and he would have been more of what they just got rid of
so going with a more professorial guy was the ultimate choice.
And it lasted a year. So there is that.
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74_75_78_79_
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Re: Buddy Ryan was pursued as Vikings' DC for '91
Good comments. And real informative stuff, John!
Wyche ended up firing Sarge Rock as well following '94. But sure enough the reason was simply the D being ranked quite low every year with exception to Floyd's first year there when they finished #11. I know that Buddy was in the initial '91 off-season discussion for Tampa Bay's DC and/or HC. Deeper into that '91 off-season, now on his horse farm, Buddy publicly praised Keith McCants, who you've written of in your Peters blog, John. He said he felt Floyd made the right move in picking him and basically predicted he'll be like Philbin, Page, Dent all who Buddy, of course, coached. McCants ended up with Buddy in both Houston and Arizona.
Buddy and Burns were together at the College All-Star Game that Jan '91. But Buddy said to the press that no talk of a job offer was discussed. I wonder how Buddy Ryan and Bud Grant themselves got along in '76 & '77? I assume there was respect and no drama between both. Not at all like '93 in Houston.
A bit off-subject, but I remember immediately after, or just before, Buddy getting fired in Philly there were some older coworkers at a restaurant I worked at saying they heard that...Bill Walsh may be pursued to replace him! They weren't the types to just make stuff up. But I have never come across any such possible, if however fleeting, rumor! An interesting hypo, just the same. How would the 'Genius' handle that Randall-led offense? Does he try to develop him/trade him? Does he tweak the defense, or keep it basically the same, etc?
Maybe I should change the name of this thread to, 'This Month in the NFL: January 1991'. Of course we all know what happened on the 17th.
Wyche ended up firing Sarge Rock as well following '94. But sure enough the reason was simply the D being ranked quite low every year with exception to Floyd's first year there when they finished #11. I know that Buddy was in the initial '91 off-season discussion for Tampa Bay's DC and/or HC. Deeper into that '91 off-season, now on his horse farm, Buddy publicly praised Keith McCants, who you've written of in your Peters blog, John. He said he felt Floyd made the right move in picking him and basically predicted he'll be like Philbin, Page, Dent all who Buddy, of course, coached. McCants ended up with Buddy in both Houston and Arizona.
Buddy and Burns were together at the College All-Star Game that Jan '91. But Buddy said to the press that no talk of a job offer was discussed. I wonder how Buddy Ryan and Bud Grant themselves got along in '76 & '77? I assume there was respect and no drama between both. Not at all like '93 in Houston.
A bit off-subject, but I remember immediately after, or just before, Buddy getting fired in Philly there were some older coworkers at a restaurant I worked at saying they heard that...Bill Walsh may be pursued to replace him! They weren't the types to just make stuff up. But I have never come across any such possible, if however fleeting, rumor! An interesting hypo, just the same. How would the 'Genius' handle that Randall-led offense? Does he try to develop him/trade him? Does he tweak the defense, or keep it basically the same, etc?
Maybe I should change the name of this thread to, 'This Month in the NFL: January 1991'. Of course we all know what happened on the 17th.
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JohnTurney
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- Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2014 1:28 pm
Re: Buddy Ryan was pursued as Vikings' DC for '91
I think it was fine between them - Ryan was just the dline coach - Armstrong ran the defense, he and Grant were old Eagles teammates74_75_78_79_ wrote: I wonder how Buddy Ryan and Bud Grant themselves got along in '76 & '77? I assume there was respect and no drama between both.
and CFL guys---Ryan didn't get to run a defense until the next year when Armstrong hired him.
So, as far as I know, and someone else may know more, it was just a normal professional
relationship, Ryan was just a subordinate.
Ryan didn't start his 46 until 1980. In 1978, though he did run some 3-4, how much?
hard to know, but at least some.
The 46 was used before the common reporting of the 1981 Chargers game -
but I suppose the question is how much and how effective was it.
The '81 Chargers game was a big deal, slowing that offense.
Anyway, Vikings didn't do any of that with Ryan, he just ran drills, I would guess.
Substitute the line when needed . . .