Andy Piascik's Take on Seniors

[Andy Piascik]

John, I would say the 1950s is not only well represented but that there are six or seven guys who played primarily in that decade who are highly questionable. Some have become such icons of the game that to suggest they don't belong in the HOF is almost sacrilegious. I'd have to take a closer look but the other decade that jumps out as being over-represented with some definite bad selections is the 1970s. No surprise there as the previous HOF President was apparently especially big on getting lots of 1970s players in. With this crappy list of 25 that the Senior Committee came up with that includes a number of guys who played most of their careers in the 1970s and who I don't believe belong in the HOF, it very likely will get worse.

[rewing84]

Andy: whats your take on Glenn Presnell and Gaynell Tinsley i would like some feedback R.Ewing

[TanksAndSpartans]

Andy, thanks for the reply. I'm a little curious who your 6 or 7 are now... I bet some Rams and Lions - HOF has always seemed to like those rings.

@rewing84, Presnell is one of my favorite players, but I don't think he has a HOF case. Had a couple of his best seasons in the Ohio Valley which I don't think the HOF would recognize. I'm glad he got into the HOVG in the early years, I don't think he'd get the votes today. Your list doesn't have much in terms of pre NFL - that would probably be the direction I would go in if you wanted to represent those early years a little. I do like your list as an NFL list although there is one obvious omission

[rewing84]

Andy, thanks for the reply. I'm a little curious who your 6 or 7 are now... I bet some Rams and Lions - HOF has always seemed to like those rings.

@rewing84, Presnell is one of my favorite players, but I don't think he has a HOF case. Had a couple of his best seasons in the Ohio Valley which I don't think the HOF would recognize. I'm glad he got into the HOVG in the early years, I don't think he'd get the votes today. Your list doesn't have much in terms of pre NFL - that would probably be the direction I would go in if you wanted to represent those early years a little. I do like your list as an NFL list although there is one obvious omission

Tanksandspartans to be fair the only pre nfl id add would be one of the nessers im not really familar with pre nfl so thats why i went mainly 1920's-present i appreciate your feedback on presnell if you can think of any pre 1920s players i should add let me know what players to add

[Andy Piascik]

John, Les Richter and John Henry Johnson are lousy Hall of Famers, just two more of many mind-boggling Senior selections made all the worse considering they were picked over Dilweg, Wistert, Barwegen, Emerson and many of the others we talk about here all the time. A few years ago, John Turney stated that he thought Tom Fears and Elroy Hirsch were undeserving, which caught my eye given that John is a Rams fan and I long thought they were slam dunks. I put a lot of weight on all-pro honors and found that John raised a good point, as both are quite light in that area for Hall of Famers.

Jack Butler was a very questionable choice I didn't support and yet another lost opportunity to elect one of the many Seniors who are more deserving.

Dante Lavelli is borderline, in my opinion. He has more all-pro honors than Fears and Hirsch but a chunk of his honors came when pro football was divided between two leagues that didn't play each other (which is also true of Fears). Still, I can't see having only two HOF WRs - Pihos and Speedie - in the period between Hutson and Berry and I don't support Benton and Kavanaugh and am not enthusiastic about Howton or Billy Wilson. I might agree that Howton is more deserving than some combination of Fears, Hirsch and Lavelli but I don't think that is a reason to elect him.

I'm troubled by Doak Walker as a HOFer. He certainly packed a good amount of all-pro honors into a short 6-year career. The question I've long had is, Why was he named first team all-pro in some of those seasons? There is much we can never know about why the coaches, players, scouts, writers, etc., voted the way they did 70 years ago and questioning their selections opens a big can of worms. But as versatile as Walker was, there are several seasons when he was a first team all-pro where I don't see production that warrants it. Was it carryover from a great college career that included a Heisman? Did Joe Perry, John Henry Johnson and Dan Towler lose votes to Walker that they should have gotten because there were people who wouldn't vote for black players over Walker and his All-American (that is, white) image? I don't know but I don't see Walker's career as a Hall of Fame one.

[rewing84]

Andy i agree with you 100% id rather take emerson and wistert over richter and john henry johnson now who id take over jack butler im not too sure im thinking either lewellen or dilweg

[Andy Piascik]

rewing84, in response to your earlier question, I don't see a case for Presnell for the HOF and definitely not one for Tinsley. I was surprised when Presnell got elected to the HOVG and didn't support him at the time, though John is probably right that it's for the best.

[Brian wolf]

Great points and insight Andy as usual but I disagree about Benton and Butler.
Both are deserving of the HOF in my opinion and Kavanaugh despite great production, simply didnt catch enough passes. Winning divisional titles helped Fears and Hirsch's causes like championships helped Lavelli and Speedie, though Benton had more TDs than Speedie and was the second leading receiver of the 1940s who won championships with separate teams and held the single-game yardage record for decades ...

[rewing84]

rewing84, in response to your earlier question, I don't see a case for Presnell for the HOF and definitely not one for Tinsley. I was surprised when Presnell got elected to the HOVG and didn't support him at the time, though John is probably right that it's for the best.

Thanks for your feedback as always andy

[rewing84]

Great points and insight Andy as usual but I disagree about Benton and Butler.
Both are deserving of the HOF in my opinion and Kavanaugh despite great production, simply didnt catch enough passes. Winning divisional titles helped Fears and Hirsch's causes like championships helped Lavelli and Speedie, though Benton had more TDs than Speedie and was the second leading receiver of the 1940s who won championships with separate teams and held the single-game yardage record for decades ...

Brian im going to agree with andy 100% on benton just doesnt have the long term numbers like speedie did