(Stupid) Question I Have as a Younger Fan

[Crazy Packers Fan]

As someone who was born in 1984, I have no memory of the goal posts being on the goal line. Now, I'm watching games from 1973, and the goal posts are on the goal line (planted about 3 yards behind the goal line and stretching to there). I'm really confused how they did things when the ball was on the 1-yard line. Was the ball always moved to one hash or the other? Or did defenses (or backs) have to cram in with their backs up against the goal post? For example, when Bart Starr had his famous sneak, were there Cowboy players trying to squeeze in between the line of scrimmage and the goal post?

And as dangerous as it was to have those goal posts there, it's really fun watching a team get to the opponents' 41 and already being in field goal range. I can't imagine how low-scoring some of these games would have been with the goal posts on the end line.

Embarrassing question, but I know this is the place to ask.

[Gary Najman]

First of all, I don't think it is a stupid or embarrassing question: I was entering kindergarten when the goalposts were moved, so I didn't see a NFL game live on tv with the goal posts on the goal line. I have seen Canadian Football League games live, however, where the goal posts are on the goal line, but as the CFL field is wider and the end zones are deeper it is not much of a problem as I think was in the NFL. I have seen the Billy Kilmer to Jerry Smith pass that hit the goal post in Super Bowl VII, or Larry Csonka colliding with the goal post while scoring a TD for the Dolphins a year later, and many NFL Films highlights of player colliding with the goal posts, so I think art was a challenge for defenses and kickers as well.

[JuggernautJ]

I have often wondered if there were particular strategies that involved the goal posts when running plays from the goal line/"red zone".
Did teams use the goals as an extra blocker? Did they try to rub off defenders on the posts when running pass plays?
I (vaguely) remember receivers grabbing hold of the goal post to quickly change direction on a route but I don't know if this was planned or more of an improvisation.

I've asked here before and not received (ha) an answer so I am hoping someone who knows the strategies in play from those days might respond this time around...

[65 toss power trap]

Receivers would frequently use the goal post as a pick, just as they would with the umpire, before that position was moved in 2012.

In Super Bowl VIII, the last nonexhibition game with the goalposts on the goal line, the Vikings were permitted to snap outside of the hashmarks so that the goalposts didn't interfere with a punt from the end zone.
https://twitter.com/QuirkyResearch/stat ... 3019411456

[GameBeforeTheMoney]

I started watching in the late 70s but also don't remember goal posts on the goal line. A while ago I wondered about some of the same things you are and so I dug into the history of the goal posts. The history of hash marks also ties into that and the strategic aspects. I'll include the links at the bottom if people want to read more, but I'll post a few main points here for people who don't have the time.

A couple of things that I learned - the NFL originally used the NCAA rulebook and had goalposts where they are today. The NFL later created its own rule and moved them to the goal line in the 1930s - likely to encourage more FG attempts and lessen the chance for scoreless ties. In 1974, the NFL moved them to the back of the end zone for the opposite reason -- to discourage longer field goals and encourage more touchdowns. In the older photos, you'll see the goalposts exactly on the goal line (I don't know what year this photo was taken): https://www.stadiumsofprofootball.com/s ... e-stadium/ -- at some point they moved them back a bit, someone else might remember when that happened and why. Here's a photo from then City Stadium in 1957 when the goalposts were offset from the goal line: https://www.packers.com/news/yes-lambea ... ed-in-1965

The NFL moved the hash marks closer together -- aligned with the goalposts -- around the same time they moved the goalposts to the back of the end zone. Kickers like Ray Wersching and Chris Bahr learned they could line up their kicks with the hash marks rather than look all the way to the goalposts. That is likely one reason why kickers are so much more accurate today -- the goalposts line up with the hash marks so they can aim in between the hash marks, also they're not kicking at extreme angles near the goal line like they once did. As far as I know, the ball was always placed on one of the hash marks, except maybe for extra points -- somebody else might no the answer to that one? The saying that the old-timers used to use on defense was "Old man sideline never misses a tackle" -- the wider hash marks helped the defense somewhat in that it shortened the field on one side for the offense. The further you go back, the further apart NFL hash marks are. You might also notice that the hash marks are still further apart in college football than they are in the NFL.

As for the Ice Bowl, I've gotten to speak with a few of the Cowboys defensive players about it, and nobody ever mentioned anything about the goalposts that I can remember. They spoke mostly about digging into the frozen turf during the time out before the sneak to gain some footing.

The goalposts on the goal line did affect the outcome of the 1945 NFL Championship -- Sammy Baugh threw a pass from his own end zone and it hit the goal posts -- that counted as a safety at the time. The (then Cleveland) Rams beat Washington by one point - 15-14 to win the championship.

https://www.thegamebeforethemoney.com/goalposts/

https://www.thegamebeforethemoney.com/a ... ash-marks/

[sheajets]

As someone who was born in 1984, I have no memory of the goal posts being on the goal line. Now, I'm watching games from 1973, and the goal posts are on the goal line (planted about 3 yards behind the goal line and stretching to there). I'm really confused how they did things when the ball was on the 1-yard line. Was the ball always moved to one hash or the other? Or did defenses (or backs) have to cram in with their backs up against the goal post? For example, when Bart Starr had his famous sneak, were there Cowboy players trying to squeeze in between the line of scrimmage and the goal post?

And as dangerous as it was to have those goal posts there, it's really fun watching a team get to the opponents' 41 and already being in field goal range. I can't imagine how low-scoring some of these games would have been with the goal posts on the end line.

Embarrassing question, but I know this is the place to ask.

Another common misconception that exists from that play is Chuck Mercein who appears to be signaling touchdown in a celebratory manner...was actually showing the official that he did not push Starr into the endzone. That was outlawed back then. If Starr was stood up and then shoved in by Green Bay players it may not have counted. Frankly I think that rule should still exist. I've seen players get stopped around the goal line then a few offensive linemen start shoving and the guy gets carried in...don't think you should be able to do that

[Hail Casares]

Good article.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/06/21/histo ... goal-posts

Also, may not be true but I believe the "post pattern" was named because it started off as a goal line route where you would try and run the defender into the post.

[JuggernautJ]

Good article....

Thank you!

[Bryan]

Receivers would frequently use the goal post as a pick, just as they would with the umpire, before that position was moved in 2012.

In Super Bowl VIII, the last nonexhibition game with the goalposts on the goal line, the Vikings were permitted to snap outside of the hashmarks so that the goalposts didn't interfere with a punt from the end zone.
https://twitter.com/QuirkyResearch/stat ... 3019411456

Interesting...I love the Quirky Research guy. One of my favorite plays that he has is Buddy Ryan calling for a Randall Cunningham quick kick...on 2nd down.

The saying that the old-timers used to use on defense was "Old man sideline never misses a tackle" -- the wider hash marks helped the defense somewhat in that it shortened the field on one side for the offense. The further you go back, the further apart NFL hash marks are. You might also notice that the hash marks are still further apart in college football than they are in the NFL.

One of the reasons for the defensive stranglehold on the NFL in the 1970's, culminating in the 1977 season, was the decision to narrow the hashmarks at prior to the 1972 season. Defenses didn't have to defend a wide side of the field, and it was much easier to play a straight-up zone with every play starting in the middle of the field. Teams were forced to run the ball more, scoring averages plummeted to levels much lower than the pre-rule change 1971 season, and it wasn't until the 1978 rule changes did offenses begin to take control of the game.

As for the goal posts being on the goal line, I've already posited in this forum that it was probably the dumbest idea in NFL history. Let's put two immovable objects on the playing field and see what happens.

[Crazy Packers Fan]

Thank you all for your great replies! Now I don't feel so dumb for being confused about it. I was just watching a game where Paul Warfield nearly took himself out after catching a post pattern for a touchdown. It really was a different game with the posts on the goal line, but I'm sure glad they changed it.