1925 NFL Standings

[74_75_78_79_]

I get the whole technicality thing, I guess. But body-of-work-wise (there were no playoffs), Pottsville was clearly the best team in '25! They beat the Cards on the field, 21-7, at Comiskey. Yes, they should have listened to Carr and not played against Notre Dame; but they did play them - and beat them - thus proving even more-so how '#1' they were. College football was considered more superior at the time, this was the "Four Horsemen" we're discussing, and Pottsville beat them!

It's not as if Pottsville cheated in that win against the Cards or against any other teams they played that season. Punishment for not listening to Carr? Sure! A fine, maybe? But not actually taking the Title from them yet alone it going on for...97 years-and counting!! And those last two wins by the Cards - weren't there high school players on each of those teams?

Yes, technicality schmechnicality, but the Bidwells (who didn't even own the team yet at the time; and Bill wasn't even born yet) should simply just 'surrender' the Title and give it on over to the team that was clearly the best in 1925! Their owner, himself, at the time didn't even want to accept the Title, feeling it wasn't deserved. And like the fans in Arizona (not Chicago, but Arizona) are really going to be upset because the banner isn't hanging there anymore! With the 100th Anniversary coming up, it wouldn't be a bad move at all for Mike to make! If I owned the Cards, I very seriously wouldn't even want that Title!

Give it to Pottsville in 2025! Throw a huge parade/festival in town! Yuengling can brew a new 'World Championship Pilsner' brand or something like that!

[JeffreyMiller]

I get the whole technicality thing, I guess. But body-of-work-wise (there were no playoffs), Pottsville was clearly the best team in '25! They beat the Cards on the field, 21-7, at Comiskey. Yes, they should have listened to Carr and not played against Notre Dame; but they did play them - and beat them - thus proving even more-so how '#1' they were. College football was considered more superior at the time, this was the "Four Horsemen" we're discussing, and Pottsville beat them!

It's not as if Pottsville cheated in that win against the Cards or against any other teams they played that season. Punishment for not listening to Carr? Sure! A fine, maybe? But not actually taking the Title from them yet alone it going on for...97 years-and counting!! And those last two wins by the Cards - weren't there high school players on each of those teams?

Yes, technicality schmechnicality, but the Bidwells (who didn't even own the team yet at the time; and Bill wasn't even born yet) should simply just 'surrender' the Title and give it on over to the team that was clearly the best in 1925! Their owner, himself, at the time didn't even want to accept the Title, feeling it wasn't deserved. And like the fans in Arizona (not Chicago, but Arizona) are really going to be upset because the banner isn't hanging there anymore! With the 100th Anniversary coming up, it wouldn't be a bad move at all for Mike to make! If I owned the Cards, I very seriously wouldn't even want that Title!

Give it to Pottsville in 2025! Throw a huge parade/festival in town! Yuengling can brew a new 'World Championship Pilsner' brand or something like that!

Is this a serious post? Asking for a friend who is a Buffalo All Americans fan ...

[TanksAndSpartans]

I get the whole technicality thing, I guess. But body-of-work-wise (there were no playoffs), Pottsville was clearly the best team in '25! They beat the Cards on the field, 21-7, at Comiskey. Yes, they should have listened to Carr and not played against Notre Dame; but they did play them - and beat them - thus proving even more-so how '#1' they were. College football was considered more superior at the time, this was the "Four Horsemen" we're discussing, and Pottsville beat them!

It's not as if Pottsville cheated in that win against the Cards or against any other teams they played that season. Punishment for not listening to Carr? Sure! A fine, maybe? But not actually taking the Title from them yet alone it going on for...97 years-and counting!! And those last two wins by the Cards - weren't there high school players on each of those teams?

Yes, technicality schmechnicality, but the Bidwells (who didn't even own the team yet at the time; and Bill wasn't even born yet) should simply just 'surrender' the Title and give it on over to the team that was clearly the best in 1925! Their owner, himself, at the time didn't even want to accept the Title, feeling it wasn't deserved. And like the fans in Arizona (not Chicago, but Arizona) are really going to be upset because the banner isn't hanging there anymore! With the 100th Anniversary coming up, it wouldn't be a bad move at all for Mike to make! If I owned the Cards, I very seriously wouldn't even want that Title!

Give it to Pottsville in 2025! Throw a huge parade/festival in town! Yuengling can brew a new 'World Championship Pilsner' brand or something like that!

Good post - I agree with everything, except in my opinion, the significance of the ND game is overblown. It was just an exhibition game. Someone would have to check, but I think it may have been the first and only game of '25 for some players on the ND side. I like Frankford as much as anyone, but the site of the ND game was already chosen and they had a chance to get the game, but lost to Pottsville. Sour grapes to then complain to the league after losing the game.

Carr was in a tough position too, but I agree the penalty didn't fit the crime. "Territorial rights" also became a big issue with Grange/Pyle trying to put their own team in NYC.

@JeffreyMiller, what's the analogy with Buffalo? 1921? I think it's a pretty different case.

[rhickok1109]

I get the whole technicality thing, I guess. But body-of-work-wise (there were no playoffs), Pottsville was clearly the best team in '25! They beat the Cards on the field, 21-7, at Comiskey. Yes, they should have listened to Carr and not played against Notre Dame; but they did play them - and beat them - thus proving even more-so how '#1' they were. College football was considered more superior at the time, this was the "Four Horsemen" we're discussing, and Pottsville beat them!

It's not as if Pottsville cheated in that win against the Cards or against any other teams they played that season. Punishment for not listening to Carr? Sure! A fine, maybe? But not actually taking the Title from them yet alone it going on for...97 years-and counting!! And those last two wins by the Cards - weren't there high school players on each of those teams?

Yes, technicality schmechnicality, but the Bidwells (who didn't even own the team yet at the time; and Bill wasn't even born yet) should simply just 'surrender' the Title and give it on over to the team that was clearly the best in 1925! Their owner, himself, at the time didn't even want to accept the Title, feeling it wasn't deserved. And like the fans in Arizona (not Chicago, but Arizona) are really going to be upset because the banner isn't hanging there anymore! With the 100th Anniversary coming up, it wouldn't be a bad move at all for Mike to make! If I owned the Cards, I very seriously wouldn't even want that Title!

Give it to Pottsville in 2025! Throw a huge parade/festival in town! Yuengling can brew a new 'World Championship Pilsner' brand or something like that!

An NFL franchise being suspended is much more than a mere technicality.

[JeffreyMiller]

I get the whole technicality thing, I guess. But body-of-work-wise (there were no playoffs), Pottsville was clearly the best team in '25! They beat the Cards on the field, 21-7, at Comiskey. Yes, they should have listened to Carr and not played against Notre Dame; but they did play them - and beat them - thus proving even more-so how '#1' they were. College football was considered more superior at the time, this was the "Four Horsemen" we're discussing, and Pottsville beat them!

It's not as if Pottsville cheated in that win against the Cards or against any other teams they played that season. Punishment for not listening to Carr? Sure! A fine, maybe? But not actually taking the Title from them yet alone it going on for...97 years-and counting!! And those last two wins by the Cards - weren't there high school players on each of those teams?

Yes, technicality schmechnicality, but the Bidwells (who didn't even own the team yet at the time; and Bill wasn't even born yet) should simply just 'surrender' the Title and give it on over to the team that was clearly the best in 1925! Their owner, himself, at the time didn't even want to accept the Title, feeling it wasn't deserved. And like the fans in Arizona (not Chicago, but Arizona) are really going to be upset because the banner isn't hanging there anymore! With the 100th Anniversary coming up, it wouldn't be a bad move at all for Mike to make! If I owned the Cards, I very seriously wouldn't even want that Title!

Give it to Pottsville in 2025! Throw a huge parade/festival in town! Yuengling can brew a new 'World Championship Pilsner' brand or something like that!

Good post - I agree with everything, except in my opinion, the significance of the ND game is overblown. It was just an exhibition game. Someone would have to check, but I think it may have been the first and only game of '25 for some players on the ND side. I like Frankford as much as anyone, but the site of the ND game was already chosen and they had a chance to get the game, but lost to Pottsville. Sour grapes to then complain to the league after losing the game.

Carr was in a tough position too, but I agree the penalty didn't fit the crime. "Territorial rights" also became a big issue with Grange/Pyle trying to put their own team in NYC.

@JeffreyMiller, what's the analogy with Buffalo? 1921? I think it's a pretty different case.

Just thinking while we're reversing ancient history ...

[TanksAndSpartans]

Just thinking while we're reversing ancient history ...

That's fair. Definitely similar in that aspect.

***
If no one talked about ancient history, my post count would be pretty low though.

[74_75_78_79_]

Yes, Jeffrey. The 1921 All-Americans are in the same 'neighborhood' of such controversy as the Maroons. You have brought them up before. In either case, out of respect for you and the others here like you too, Ralph (and...Bob Carroll), who are far more an authority on football history, I'll drop bringing it up again after this. I'll always opine though, along with others, that they were the very best in '25. They should have listened to Carr and not played that infamous game in Philly. But even there - correct me if wrong - had the wind blown a different direction, Carr would have re-examined it which I believe he said he was going to do. But he never did. And the Bidwells then took over the Cards thus making their claim; and forever sticking with it. And that was that. Even if Mike Bidwell would, himself, insist to the league on handing over '25 to Pottsville, the league would probably not do so anyway.

[TodMaher]

Well, it all seems to be a glitch because the 1926, 1927, 1929, 1930 and 1931 standings on nfl.com are wrong as well.

[Zero26]

Pottsville clearly won the title but they have no voice whereas the Cardinals do. The Cardinals haven't won a championship since the Truman admin(though I guess the NFC title is the same as an NFL championship) even if Bidwill knows he's wrong he's not going to donate a championship to a defunct team on the behalf of the deceased players and followers. I do not expect the NFL to change. If the Cardinals become a dynasty some day I could see a future Bidwell relenting in the name of positive media attention or something but it's a long shot.

The focus should be on changing the opinion of the HOF which is supposed to be independent and should be expected to go along with the historical consensus on this. They are the NFL HOF in practice because the NFL just so happens to be the only serious football league not because they are controlled by the NFL. The NFL isn't going to change their stance for above reasons but I doubt they care enough to retaliate or anything. What are they going to do?

Good news is the centennial is 100 years away that'd probably be the moment to do something commenerating the 1925 team. 74_75_78_79_ brings up a good point. Even if the situation isn't fixed I imagine the people of Pottsville are going to do something.

But yeah the tide against amateurism is as strong as it's ever been everyone should agree on the merits of this case. If we really wanted to be consistant we could strip every NFL champion who participated in the college all star game from 34 to 76 for defiling themselves by playing a college team.

Another idea is a compromise solution with co champs or something so everyone can be happy and Pottsville and Chicago both get acknowledged. Those were both very good teams and it isn't a tragedy if the Cards have a banner for that season. In the title game era runner ups got banners so why not give a 20s runner up one? But yes if the Pottsville side says we shouldn't settle for that we won fair and square can't really argue with that. But it's an idea and maybe Bidwell would be more willing to "do the right thing" if he doesn't lose a banner in the process.

[JeffreyMiller]

Pottsville clearly won the title but they have no voice whereas the Cardinals do. The Cardinals haven't won a championship since the Truman admin(though I guess the NFC title is the same as an NFL championship) even if Bidwill knows he's wrong he's not going to donate a championship to a defunct team on the behalf of the deceased players and followers. I do not expect the NFL to change. If the Cardinals become a dynasty some day I could see a future Bidwell relenting in the name of positive media attention or something but it's a long shot.

The focus should be on changing the opinion of the HOF which is supposed to be independent and should be expected to go along with the historical consensus on this. They are the NFL HOF in practice because the NFL just so happens to be the only serious football league not because they are controlled by the NFL. The NFL isn't going to change their stance for above reasons but I doubt they care enough to retaliate or anything. What are they going to do?

Good news is the centennial is 100 years away that'd probably be the moment to do something commenerating the 1925 team. 74_75_78_79_ brings up a good point. Even if the situation isn't fixed I imagine the people of Pottsville are going to do something.

But yeah the tide against amateurism is as strong as it's ever been everyone should agree on the merits of this case. If we really wanted to be consistant we could strip every NFL champion who participated in the college all star game from 34 to 76 for defiling themselves by playing a college team.

Another idea is a compromise solution with co champs or something so everyone can be happy and Pottsville and Chicago both get acknowledged. Those were both very good teams and it isn't a tragedy if the Cards have a banner for that season. In the title game era runner ups got banners so why not give a 20s runner up one? But yes if the Pottsville side says we shouldn't settle for that we won fair and square can't really argue with that. But it's an idea and maybe Bidwell would be more willing to "do the right thing" if he doesn't lose a banner in the process.

Wait, are you seriously comparing the annual college All Star Game to the Pottsville situation? And did you say the HOF is "supposed to be independent" but "should be expected to go along with historical perspective"?