What is your personal "GOAT progression"?

[Brian wolf]

I would put Shula over Brown because he won with different QBs and teams while Brown, though an innovator, only won with Otto and struggled later while letting too many good players leave his teams. Halas and Lambeau were great as well with Lombardi, Noll and Landry coaching great teams with ten year runs. Belichick belongs on the greatest list as well, coaching a dynasty during the era of free agency. Though I still believe Weeb Ewbank is the best big-game coach, Bill Walsh and Joe Gibbs deserve alot of credit as two of the best of coaches.

[racepug]

I would put Shula over Brown

Funny you should mention that. Don Shula is the only head coach in the P.F.H.o.F. whom I would NEVER have put there. The guy lost (at least) as many "big games" as he won - many were upsets that his team was expected to win, handily. And if you look at his career with MIA it had one GREAT run (1971 - 74) and one decent one (1981 - 85) and that's about it. By my calculations that's less than half the time that he coached that team. And despite having one of the best QBs of all time on it what did his team accomplish over the last 10, or so, years that he was in charge of it, hm? Nah - to me D.S. has always been comPLETEly overrated. No way in Hades do rate him as highly as I do other coaches in the P.F.H.o.F. Not a chance.

[SixtiesFan]

I would put Shula over Brown

Funny you should mention that. Don Shula is the only head coach in the P.F.H.o.F. whom I would NEVER have put there. The guy lost (at least) as many "big games" as he won - many were upsets that his team was expected to win, handily. And if you look at his career with MIA it had one GREAT run (1971 - 74) and one decent one (1981 - 85) and that's about it. By my calculations that's less than half the time that he coached that team. And despite having one of the best QBs of all time on it what did his team accomplish over the last 10, or so, years that he was in charge of it, hm? Nah - to me D.S. has always been comPLETEly overrated. No way in Hades do rate him as highly as I do other coaches in the P.F.H.o.F. Not a chance.

I remember Don Shula circa 1972 being criticized for his teams coming up flat in the 1964 NFL Championship, Super Bowl III, and Super Bowl VI. This might be why the Dolphins were underdogs in Super Bowl VII despite their undefeated season.

I recall reading an interview with Shula at that time in which he laments, "I know they say Shula doesn't win the big ones."

On the other hand, Shula took a 3-10-1 Dolphin team and made them a Super Bowl team in two years, unbeaten champions in three.

[Brian wolf]

Good points on Shula ...

He did tend to lose big games but when you can reach a SB with Earl Morrall in his first year and David Woodley, thats saying alot, while still having the Perfect Season. Though I think Warfield is the greatest wide receiver ever, had he caught that TD pass from Griese in the endzone against the Raiders in the Sea Of Hands Game, the Raiders would have never came back and the Dolphins might have three-peated. Losing Warfield and Csonka, not to mention safeties Scott and Anderson to injuries didnt help in the following years while Baltimore became prominent again. With Marino, like Stafford now, a coach isnt going to stick with the running game but injuries hurt the 80s-90s defenses for Miami as well. Imagine if Louis Oliver, Offerdahl, Baumhower, Duhe and other defenders had stayed more healthy ?

[racepug]

My impression of Don Shula (in "real time") was of a coach who relied almost exclusively on Dan Marino and "The Marks Bros." to win games because my memory of the Dolphins (starting in the early '80s) is that they had no "D" and no real run game to speak of (their "rushing attack" in S.B. XIX was laughable). Also, I remember hearing several times during that decade how Don Shula "is the head of the rules committee" which always led me to believe that his teams got away with stuff on the field that many other teams never would've been allowed to.

[racepug]

He did tend to lose big games but when you can reach a SB with Earl Morrall

Earl Morrall wasn't the reason those Dolphins got to the S.B., though.

and David Woodley

They lucked out that year when the Jets upset the #1 seeded Raiders in the "Super Bowl tournament." While there's no guarantee that the Raiders would've beaten the David Woodley-led Dolphins in the A.F.C. championship game that season my memory tells me that the Raiders generally did pretty well against Don Shula-coached Dolphins teams and I personally think that they would've beaten MIA.

[JameisLoseston]

I would put Shula over Brown

Funny you should mention that. Don Shula is the only head coach in the P.F.H.o.F. whom I would NEVER have put there. The guy lost (at least) as many "big games" as he won - many were upsets that his team was expected to win, handily. And if you look at his career with MIA it had one GREAT run (1971 - 74) and one decent one (1981 - 85) and that's about it. By my calculations that's less than half the time that he coached that team. And despite having one of the best QBs of all time on it what did his team accomplish over the last 10, or so, years that he was in charge of it, hm? Nah - to me D.S. has always been comPLETEly overrated. No way in Hades do rate him as highly as I do other coaches in the P.F.H.o.F. Not a chance.

I think most would call you clinically insane for not having the NFL's winningest coach, with a .677 career winning percentage, in the HOF. Overrated, fine, that's valid, but don't go Skip Bayless levels of hot takes with it. You act like he coached a ton of terrible teams besides the few great ones. He had two seasons below .500 in 33 years.

Though I think Warfield is the greatest wide receiver ever

I'm sorry, what.

[Brian wolf]

Morrall took the Colts to the SB and I didnt stutter ... Paul Warfield too me, is the NFL's Best Ever Receiver

[racepug]

I think most would call you clinically insane for not having the NFL's winningest coach, with a .677 career winning percentage, in the HOF.

Don't care. That's how I feel about it and that's not changing.

You act like he coached a ton of terrible teams besides the few great ones. He had two seasons below .500 in 33 years.

Don't care. I'd say that's more about the level of competition within his own division over that time frame than anything having to do with his talent as a football coach.

[racepug]

Morrall took the Colts to the SB

By doing what? Handing the ball off to Csonka, Kiick, and Morris all season?