Maybe I missed it, Pro Bowl snubs

[NWebster]

Many media outlets do this, but given the deeply infirmed opinions of most here on the forum I always enjoy our Pro Bowl (and All Pro in a couple weeks) reaches and snubs.

To me, there were few egregious Jeff Saturday's inclusion, Richard Sherman's exclusion type misses this year. But here are my initial thoughts:

Reaches:
Patrick Peterson- I think he'll be this gemerations's Champ Bailey, a highly drafted and likable guy where the onus is on voters to exclude him. Well, he had a pretty horrible season in 2014. Coach Troup has a better quote for this, but its one thing to be covering the other teams best guy, its another to spend four quarters chasing them into the endzone.
Clay Matthews- This is a tough one as he was asked to do very different things this season, but I think there were other OLB's more deserving, more coming.
ILB- Tough position generally as Wagner is truly an impact player but was injured and missed a lot of action and Timmons was down this year.
Dontario Poe- He doesn't belong, this is always a difficult position for the general public to evaluate, but I think either Jet Richardson or Wilkerson would've been a better fit.
DeMarcus Ware- I think this is largely a vote on reputation, had barely double figure sacks and beneffitted from Von Miller getting most of the focus.

Snubs:
LaVonte David- Toiling in Tampa is a snub for the second year straight, not sure what this guy needs to do to get acclaim other than have his GM draft a competent QB. He outplayed Luke Kuechley last year only to have Kuechlry get an All Pro, Pro Bowl and a totally undeserving D POY on the back of a single huge tackle total game.
NYJ Linemen- Both Sheldon Richardson and Muhammed Wilkerson were fantastic all year, if they can keep these guys together for a few years this could be an all time interior line.
Terrell Suggs- The sack numbers weren't his best ever, but were good, but once again he was strong in the pass rush and Very stout against the run. He's putting up one of the quietest HOF careers of any active defender. Defenders seem to benefit from voters being able to point to one stat reflect one very large strength, Houstons' sacks, Kuechley's tackles, etc but a guy who has lots of varied responsibilities in a scheme where his position isn't easily defined gets lost for doing absolutely everything well - that's Suggs.
Khalil Mack- Really stout against the run. Fantastic rookie, stuck in Oakland. CJ Mosley has been great and I like that the voters identified him as worthy, but if these two switch teams Mack is going to Hawaii and Mosley's sitting at home.
DeAndre Levy- Detroit had a run D that was just short of historic this season, and it wasn't all Suh in the middle Levy is excellent against both the run and in coverage.
Alec Ogletree- A real impact backer playing well behind a hell of a D line. Obviously he benefits playing behind probably the best D Line in the league but he made a ton of impact plays this year.
JPP- I'd take him over the more one dimensional DeMarcus Ware as a DE who was an impact pass rusher, but also player well against the run.

Outside Looking In:
Senderrick Marks- Great season under the radar in Jacksonville, but I would kick anyone else out to put him in.

Ryan Kerrigan- To me he had every bit the season Mario Williams did, but Williams had a couple big plays at opportune times (Packer fans won't forget) that give him the nod despite very very similar seasons overall.

Thoughts??

[Jeremy Crowhurst]

I thought AJ Green and Megatron's selections were a joke. They missed time, they weren't all that dominant when they played - Calvin had five stinky games, AJ had two. Odell Beckham should have been in, and really, there's a good argument for him to be the #2 All-Pro behind Antonio Brown.

Forte's exclusion is suspect, closing in on 100 catches, #3 yards from scrimmage on that absolute dumpster fire of a team. But really, this is the season of two backs -- Murray and Bell -- and there are about 8 others that you could make a good case for.

[Reaser]

Well I typed something up and hit post and then it said I had to sign in (already was signed in - hence I was responding to the thread) and naturally it lost everything I typed, so that's cool.

[Bob Gill]

... Defenders seem to benefit from voters being able to point to one stat reflect one very large strength, Houstons' sacks, Kuechley's tackles, etc but a guy who has lots of varied responsibilities in a scheme where his position isn't easily defined gets lost for doing absolutely everything well ...

Yes, that's always been a problem. For a while in the 1990s the sack leader was almost guaranteed to be the defensive player of the year -- i.e., Pat Swilling. Dana Stubblefield and others. Not that those guys were bad players or anything, but in Swilling's case, for instance, I thought he wasn't as good or as valuable as the all-around guys like Seth Joyner and Wilber Marshall who were standouts at everything a linebacker does. They didn't show up in the stat leaders, though, so that was that.

I'm not exactly faulting the voters for this, either. I believe it's true that sacks are the best high-profile defensive stat -- that is, they're more consistent from year to year than interceptions and thus a better indication of an actual ability. But it's like if baseball counted only strikeouts for pitchers, or only home runs for hitters: You'd get a Cy Young winner who had a 3.86 ERA but struck out 250, and an MVP who hit 42 homers but batted .236. That's what can happen in football.

[NWebster]

Well I typed something up and hit post and then it said I had to sign in (already was signed in - hence I was responding to the thread) and naturally it lost everything I typed, so that's cool.

Thoughts on the DB's - particularly Peterson?

[Reaser]

Thoughts on the DB's - particularly Peterson?

I had went over most positions but I don't feel like re-typing everything.

Had a "no" on Peterson. Besides that he has a name, seems that he's getting way too much credit for 'covering' (really just matching up with) the best receivers ... which you could stick me on Julio Jones and watch him blow by me every play and that wouldn't make me a Pro Bowl CB, so why does it make Peterson one? Also think there is better choices than Joe Haden, who has always been rated higher than he should be, based off draft status and having a name. Though this year he did play up to his name, at times, but he also was poor at times so too inconsistent, he's still not "there" yet, for me.

Also don't like how they distribute the safety slots. I would put Bethea in.

Quick version of the rest minus the expanded commentary that was on the disallowed post;

Levy and Richardson were the top two on my snub list. Also would have liked to see J. Casey get selected.

I had JPP over Ware as well.

McCoy was amazing, last season. Forsett or Lacy could have had that spot. Even Forte, though that was probably never going to happen with the Bears disaster season, though if there's one player who's fault it isn't ...

Agreed on Lavonte David, though nowhere near as egregious as last year.

On the old forum I wrote a pretty lengthy post on the Seahawks defense and argued - and kept arguing - that Wagner is what makes the defense go. Glad that others are evidently coming around to that conclusion, but on games played alone I'de agree he shouldn't be in. Always something to be said for showing up week after week, though clearly - when he did play - he played at a so-called "pro bowl level".

Timmons was a really poor choice, not so much about who didn't make it but more about that he did when there was multiple choices better than him.

Wrap it up with something I've been posting on our forums for a handful of years now, since I've gone on about it before I'll leave it at merely pointing out my usual complaint - minus last season due to injury - about Pouncey's auto-Pro Bowl selections (and likely 1st or 2nd team all-pro honors) ...

[King Kong]

Well I typed something up and hit post and then it said I had to sign in (already was signed in - hence I was responding to the thread) and naturally it lost everything I typed, so that's cool.

Thoughts on the DB's - particularly Peterson?

I watched all the Jets and Cardinals action this season. Sheldon Richardson was top notch and should have made the Pro Bowl. Patrick Peterson stunk this year. Antonio Cromartie was the better of the Arizona cornerbacks. I would go so far as to say undrafted, in-season street free agent pickup Marcus Williams of the Jets played the cornerback position better than did Peterson this season. True, different schemes and all that, but Williams wasn't chasing receivers into the end zone every other quarter.

[NWebster]

Timmons was a really poor choice, not so much about who didn't make it but more about that he did when there was multiple choices better than him.

Wrap it up with something I've been posting on our forums for a handful of years now, since I've gone on about it before I'll leave it at merely pointing out my usual complaint - minus last season due to injury - about Pouncey's auto-Pro Bowl selections (and likely 1st or 2nd team all-pro honors) ...

Agree on Timmons, oddly he was snubbed in past seasons, he might've been the best ILB in the NFL in 2011-2012, but this was not his best season, and frankly he seems to be somewhat in decline.

On Pouncey, I agree that he has a series of undeserving trips to Hawaii, but this was actually a pretty good season for him and I don't think he was a reach this year - though I wouldn't pound my fist on the table for him.

[Reaser]

On Pouncey, I agree that he has a series of undeserving trips to Hawaii, but this was actually a pretty good season for him and I don't think he was a reach this year - though I wouldn't pound my fist on the table for him.

and 1st-team AP All-Pro now, too. shocking ...

Never seen such a manufactured probable Hall of Famer. As if someone just predetermined before his rookie year that he was an automatic selection every year ... If he plays another five years - without injury - it's practically a lock that five years from now he'll be a 9-time Pro Bowler and have nine seasons of All-Pro honors. For a player who it could be argued has never been even top-5 at his position in his career (at best he's had maybe one "top 5" season) ... Outstanding.

edit to add: Always conscience of going too far in the other direction to make a point, so hopefully it doesn't read as if I'm saying he's a terrible player. I'm merely meaning to point out that he's not the Jim Brown equivalent at his position.

[NWebster]

On Pouncey, I agree that he has a series of undeserving trips to Hawaii, but this was actually a pretty good season for him and I don't think he was a reach this year - though I wouldn't pound my fist on the table for him.

and 1st-team AP All-Pro now, too. shocking ...

Never seen such a manufactured probable Hall of Famer. As if someone just predetermined before his rookie year that he was an automatic selection every year ... If he plays another five years - without injury - it's practically a lock that five years from now he'll be a 9-time Pro Bowler and have nine seasons of All-Pro honors. For a player who it could be argued has never been even top-5 at his position in his career (at best he's had maybe one "top 5" season) ... Outstanding.

edit to add: Always conscience of going too far in the other direction to make a point, so hopefully it doesn't read as if I'm saying he's a terrible player. I'm merely meaning to point out that he's not the Jim Brown equivalent at his position.

I think Patrick Peterson will fall in this category as well in a few years as well, some guys cannot seem to play badly enough not to make All Pro.