Both teams from the 1963 CG had terrible defenses the following year. I think the Bears has to be the biggest flop of them all.Jay Z wrote:1985 49ers brought everyone back on offense and added Jerry Rice! 60 sacks! Veteran defensive backfield by that time, which is intact. Hacksaw retired, but he was ancient anyways and didn't do any pass coverage. Run defense was good still, avoided giving up TDs, but couldn't get off the field to an extent. Farted around to a 3-4 record with 3 of the losses against losing teams. Righted the ship to 10-6 but went in as a WC, then lose 17-3 to NYG. Seems like a disappointment with that talent base. Any others?
Disappointing title defenses
Re: Disappointing title defenses
-
Brian wolf
- Posts: 3448
- Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:43 am
Re: Disappointing title defenses
Another disappointing loss was the 1990/91 NFC Championship for the 49ers ...
Yes, they went further along than many teams trying to three-peat but it was all there for the taking in 1990 but Belichick and the Giants defense played inspiring football, or was Holmgren took conservative with the 49er offense ?
Montana played error-free football before being hurt but never really attacked the Giant secondary down the field despite his one TD pass that cornerback Everson Walls didnt play well. Was this game one of the greatest defensive games ever played or did the Niners lack of a running game all year finally catch up with them. Though Steve Young played well late in the game, the great Howard penetration for the Giants and hit and fumble from Craig, helped the Giants cement the win. Though Young doesnt get credit for the loss despite a 13-12 lead, I think he would have beaten the Bills in the SB. Its obvious that despite a great career for Craig, his fumble has stayed in voters minds in terms of making the HOF but it shouldnt. Like Asante Samuel dropping a SB clinching interception against Manning and the Giants for NE, both players had great careers despite bitter ends to those seasons.
Parcells seems to get less credit as time goes on due to the defensive genius of Belichick but he was a great coach who could motivate coaches and players. Despite not utilizing Curtis Martin more as a runner and depending upon Bledsoe too much in the 96/97 SB, he usually did a great coaching job in big games and got perhaps his greatest win ever against this 49er team, who many thought would three-peat.
As for the 49ers, Seifert might have panicked a little bit getting rid of Lott, Haley and Craig after this disappointing defeat. All three players could have helped defeat the rising Cowboys, while Young was learning to win a SB himself, though to this day, Montana should have had an opportunity to take his starting job back to start the 1993 season before being disfavored and traded ...
Yes, they went further along than many teams trying to three-peat but it was all there for the taking in 1990 but Belichick and the Giants defense played inspiring football, or was Holmgren took conservative with the 49er offense ?
Montana played error-free football before being hurt but never really attacked the Giant secondary down the field despite his one TD pass that cornerback Everson Walls didnt play well. Was this game one of the greatest defensive games ever played or did the Niners lack of a running game all year finally catch up with them. Though Steve Young played well late in the game, the great Howard penetration for the Giants and hit and fumble from Craig, helped the Giants cement the win. Though Young doesnt get credit for the loss despite a 13-12 lead, I think he would have beaten the Bills in the SB. Its obvious that despite a great career for Craig, his fumble has stayed in voters minds in terms of making the HOF but it shouldnt. Like Asante Samuel dropping a SB clinching interception against Manning and the Giants for NE, both players had great careers despite bitter ends to those seasons.
Parcells seems to get less credit as time goes on due to the defensive genius of Belichick but he was a great coach who could motivate coaches and players. Despite not utilizing Curtis Martin more as a runner and depending upon Bledsoe too much in the 96/97 SB, he usually did a great coaching job in big games and got perhaps his greatest win ever against this 49er team, who many thought would three-peat.
As for the 49ers, Seifert might have panicked a little bit getting rid of Lott, Haley and Craig after this disappointing defeat. All three players could have helped defeat the rising Cowboys, while Young was learning to win a SB himself, though to this day, Montana should have had an opportunity to take his starting job back to start the 1993 season before being disfavored and traded ...
Re: Disappointing title defenses
If Young plays well in SB XXV and wins, does that mean he gets traded after that? And, if so, where does he go?Brian wolf wrote:Another disappointing loss was the 1990/91 NFC Championship for the 49ers ...
Yes, they went further along than many teams trying to three-peat but it was all there for the taking in 1990 but Belichick and the Giants defense played inspiring football, or was Holmgren took conservative with the 49er offense ?
Montana played error-free football before being hurt but never really attacked the Giant secondary down the field despite his one TD pass that cornerback Everson Walls didnt play well. Was this game one of the greatest defensive games ever played or did the Niners lack of a running game all year finally catch up with them. Though Steve Young played well late in the game, the great Howard penetration for the Giants and hit and fumble from Craig, helped the Giants cement the win. Though Young doesnt get credit for the loss despite a 13-12 lead, I think he would have beaten the Bills in the SB. Its obvious that despite a great career for Craig, his fumble has stayed in voters minds in terms of making the HOF but it shouldnt. Like Asante Samuel dropping a SB clinching interception against Manning and the Giants for NE, both players had great careers despite bitter ends to those seasons.
Parcells seems to get less credit as time goes on due to the defensive genius of Belichick but he was a great coach who could motivate coaches and players. Despite not utilizing Curtis Martin more as a runner and depending upon Bledsoe too much in the 96/97 SB, he usually did a great coaching job in big games and got perhaps his greatest win ever against this 49er team, who many thought would three-peat.
As for the 49ers, Seifert might have panicked a little bit getting rid of Lott, Haley and Craig after this disappointing defeat. All three players could have helped defeat the rising Cowboys, while Young was learning to win a SB himself, though to this day, Montana should have had an opportunity to take his starting job back to start the 1993 season before being disfavored and traded ...
Also, I agree that they should have kept Lott in 1991, but Craig was on the decline. Also, I think that Lott's relase led to Haley's eventual departure a year later because he took Lott's release hard.
-
Brian wolf
- Posts: 3448
- Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:43 am
Re: Disappointing title defenses
Yeah, with Lott gone in 91, not to mention the team not making the playoffs for the first time since 1982, Haley was disruptive to everyone but you would think the team would have traded him to any team but the Cowboys, who had given the 49ers a tough game in 1990 ...
Re: Disappointing title defenses
1957 Cleveland Browns. After leading the NFL in fewest points allowed that year, they got slaughtered in the championship game, 59 to 14, by the Detroit Lions. Actually, the Browns led their league in fewest points allowed in 10 out of 12 seasons, starting in 1946 and ending in 1957.
About 3 days before the game, quarterback Milt Plum, who was supposed to start in the title game, popped a hamstring while playing catch and jumping to catch a football. Because this would hamper Plums mobility, the Browns decided to start Tommy O'Connell at quarterback, who had not played for more than a month due to a fractured ankle. O'Connell apparently wasn't ready and threw a pick 6 and another interception that resulted in another Detroit TD.
There were other things. Also in the first half, rookie Milt Campbell fumbled a Detroit kickoff, which resulted in 6 easy points for the Lions.
With the score 17 to 7 in favor of Detroit, the Lions lined up for a field goal. Detroit quarterback Tobin Rote decided to gamble and fake the field goal. He passed to Steve Junker (I think that was who he passed to) for another Lions TD. Score at half time was Detroit 31, Cleveland 7.
In the second half, Cleveland replaced O'Connell with Plum, despite the hamstring injury. Milt was not much more effective than O'Connell was and Detroit ran up the score to 59 to 14. It was great revenge for the Lions, who had lost the 1954 title game to Cleveland, 56 to 10. The game was played in Detroit, which probably did not help the Browns.
About 3 days before the game, quarterback Milt Plum, who was supposed to start in the title game, popped a hamstring while playing catch and jumping to catch a football. Because this would hamper Plums mobility, the Browns decided to start Tommy O'Connell at quarterback, who had not played for more than a month due to a fractured ankle. O'Connell apparently wasn't ready and threw a pick 6 and another interception that resulted in another Detroit TD.
There were other things. Also in the first half, rookie Milt Campbell fumbled a Detroit kickoff, which resulted in 6 easy points for the Lions.
With the score 17 to 7 in favor of Detroit, the Lions lined up for a field goal. Detroit quarterback Tobin Rote decided to gamble and fake the field goal. He passed to Steve Junker (I think that was who he passed to) for another Lions TD. Score at half time was Detroit 31, Cleveland 7.
In the second half, Cleveland replaced O'Connell with Plum, despite the hamstring injury. Milt was not much more effective than O'Connell was and Detroit ran up the score to 59 to 14. It was great revenge for the Lions, who had lost the 1954 title game to Cleveland, 56 to 10. The game was played in Detroit, which probably did not help the Browns.
Re: Disappointing title defenses
Saban wrote:1957 Cleveland Browns. After leading the NFL in fewest points allowed that year, they got slaughtered in the championship game, 59 to 14, by the Detroit Lions. Actually, the Browns led their league in fewest points allowed in 10 out of 12 seasons, starting in 1946 and ending in 1957.
About 3 days before the game, quarterback Milt Plum, who was supposed to start in the title game, popped a hamstring while playing catch and jumping to catch a football. Because this would hamper Plums mobility, the Browns decided to start Tommy O'Connell at quarterback, who had not played for more than a month due to a fractured ankle. O'Connell apparently wasn't ready and threw a pick 6 and another interception that resulted in another Detroit TD.
There were other things. Also in the first half, rookie Milt Campbell fumbled a Detroit kickoff, which resulted in 6 easy points for the Lions.
With the score 17 to 7 in favor of Detroit, the Lions lined up for a field goal. Detroit quarterback Tobin Rote decided to gamble and fake the field goal. He passed to Steve Junker (I think that was who he passed to) for another Lions TD. Score at half time was Detroit 31, Cleveland 7.
In the second half, Cleveland replaced O'Connell with Plum, despite the hamstring injury. Milt was not much more effective than O'Connell was and Detroit ran up the score to 59 to 14. It was great revenge for the Lions, who had lost the 1954 title game to Cleveland, 56 to 10. The game was played in Detroit, which probably did not help the Browns.
Oops, I thought that this was about bad title games after great defensive seasons. Sorry.
However, in 1956, Cleveland fell to a 5 and 7 record after winning the NFL Championship in 1954 and 1955. Otto Graham's retirement was a factor. Also, there were a lot of injuries that year. Their two quarterbacks, George Ratterman and Vito Parilli both were injured and the Browns finished the season with free agent Tommy O'Connell as their starting quarterback (don't know who would have played quarterback for Cleveland if O'Connell was injured).
Cleveland started to play better after O'Connell got started and won 3 of their last 5 games. That may have been an omen as O'Connell and rookie quarterback Milt Plum led the Browns to the Eastern Conference title in 1957, with the help of a bunch of rookies, including Vince Costello, Paul Wiggin, Fred Robinson, and some guy named Jim Brown.
Re: Disappointing title defenses
Montana got hurt and was done for two years after 1990. Young got the job anyway, are they going to trade him to play Steve Bono?7DnBrnc53 wrote: If Young plays well in SB XXV and wins, does that mean he gets traded after that? And, if so, where does he go?
Re: Disappointing title defenses
His elbow injury happened in the 1991 pre-season, not in the NFC Title Game:Jay Z wrote:Montana got hurt and was done for two years after 1990. Young got the job anyway, are they going to trade him to play Steve Bono?7DnBrnc53 wrote: If Young plays well in SB XXV and wins, does that mean he gets traded after that? And, if so, where does he go?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/ ... 88888316c/
Re: Disappointing title defenses
That being the case, the teams that had won championships with some sort of QB "controversy" were never in a particular hurry to make those trades sooner rather than later. 1971 Cowboys, 1972 Dolphins, 1990 Giants... a three time champion is going to stand pat and be happy they have a good backup QB. No meaningful free agency or salary cap at the time, so they didn't have to free up resources. I can't see any GM pulling the trigger on that sort of trade. Partly because no one is pushing you to do so. The fans aren't in an uproar, you don't have to make a trade to get in some new faces or appease the fans. So why risk it?7DnBrnc53 wrote:His elbow injury happened in the 1991 pre-season, not in the NFC Title Game:Jay Z wrote:Montana got hurt and was done for two years after 1990. Young got the job anyway, are they going to trade him to play Steve Bono?7DnBrnc53 wrote: If Young plays well in SB XXV and wins, does that mean he gets traded after that? And, if so, where does he go?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/ ... 88888316c/
Re: Disappointing title defenses
I find it somewhat annoying when the 82 Niners are glossed over and everything is summed up to "well, the strike happened". Bill Walsh did nothing to address the running game (Niners finished last in both yards and ypc), and the defense was one of the worst in the NFL. Dwaine Board was nicked up, but it was basically the same team as the 81 champion team. They played in a bad division and managed to lose games to the 2-7 Rams and the 2-7 Broncos. If there wasn't a strike, the Niners probably end up at 6-10. They simply weren't good.RRMarshall wrote:You would have to put the 1982 49ners in that category, too. Coming off their first SB title in 1981 they fall flat in the strike season of 1982 going 3-6 with the defense having all sorts of issues.
Someone else mentioned the 85 Niners, which is another Walsh puzzler. The 84 team was one of the best ever...you add Jerry Rice, have no major injuries, and Roger Craig has a 1000/1000 year. Yet you struggle to go 10-6 and lose the division to a team with Dieter Brock at QB? Sure, those mid-80's Giants teams had a strong defense, but to only manage 3 points in a wild-card round loss is somewhat ridiculous.