"The Fix Is In" - Book by Brian Tuohy Started by Marble_Eye

[SixtiesFan]

This is from a blog called Super Fraud:

Part 1: http://superfraud.blogspot.com/2012/05/ ... s-vis.html

Part 2: http://superfraud.blogspot.com/2012/05/ ... tball.html

Here is a highlight from the second link. RHickok said this:

"Yes, I basically trust the NFL for a very simple reason. Fixing of the sort you allege cannot possibly go on for very long without being exposed, and the people who run the NFL, whatever else they may be, are intelligent people who are fully aware of that. A serious, well-documented exposure of manipulating outcomes would kill the golden goose. It would destroy the NFL's credibility (which is why Rozelle acted so quickly in the 1962 Hornung/Karras/Lions scandal), it would turn fans away, and it would cost the league millions and perhaps billions of dollars in the long run. It would kill the proverbial golden goose."

And, this was the response from the author of this blog, Starcade:

Would it kill the golden goose?

To do so, you'd have to make two assumptions of the American public:

First, that they are intelligent enough to "get it".

Second, that they even care.

I don't believe you can go broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people. And as for the second part: TV Guide, just before the 1999 advent of the Million-Dollar Game/Reality Show Era, had a poll asking the people whether they would care about a re-do of the game show scandals of the 1950's.

Fully two out of five said they would not care if the games were rigged.

What makes sports any different? Especially given the allegations and proven accusations and injuries we've learned about in the NFL just in this off-season, how much of "Just entertain me!!" has to be in the blood of the people of this culture to not look seriously at what's really been going on, over and above game-fixing and the like!

As someone who has followed pro football for well over 50 years, I believe both dynamics may be in play. One, those who run pro football feel it is in their (financial) self-interest to have an honest game. Two, the infantile American public of the 21st Century may not especially care as long as they are entertained.

I have already written on this subject that large scale fixing over many years without exposure would be impossible. Also, the enormous payoffs it would take makes it unprofitable.

[luckyshow]

I am unsure the density of the American public mind is so immune to the media. And if a game was fixed, the media would go ape-sh*t. There would be grandstanding hearings in Congress.

Not sure how a fix might occur. A player in fantasy league held back so he doesn't do what is needed for someone's fantasy team, perhaps?

I think the NBA is courting enormous danger considering how money seems to determine almost everything now. If they jump between teams for additional millions, why not play with the spread, who knows what?

Yes, the public are morons, and I personally don't understand how pro wrestling is fixed yet that ridiculous kick boxing, anything-gies, inside a cage nonsense is not fixed.

I get that the public just cares about the bread and circuses, hardly pays attention or cares about simple ideas like they used to. They are less discerning about almost everything. music, photography, deatails about almost anything, history in depth or even shallow..

I think the supposed fans would go crazy if they found out a referee was being paid on the side to call or not call penalties, etc.

Perhaps not. Look at steroids. In baseball it was ignored for a decade plus, now they make like it's a mortal sin. Yet it gets minimal suspensions in football or basketball. Pot gets larger penalties and can't be enhancing many at all....

The public are idiots and there is far too much gambling in our society. It is stupid that ratings stay up for blowouts due to fantasy teams.

How that is exempt from being considered gambling is amazing and shows again the perfidity of modern politics...

[Rupert Patrick]

Yes, the public are morons, and I personally don't understand how pro wrestling is fixed yet that ridiculous kick boxing, anything-gies, inside a cage nonsense is not fixed.

If wrestling were real, it would be that MMA/UFC fighting. I ran into George The Animal Steele a couple times when I lived in Detroit, he used to be the football coach at the high school where I lived in Madison Heights and still owned a house there or had family there. I never asked him if wrestling was fake because I was afraid of being body slammed or something.

[John Grasso]

Yes, the public are morons, and I personally don't understand how pro wrestling is fixed yet that ridiculous kick boxing, anything-gies, inside a cage nonsense is not fixed.

If wrestling were real, it would be that MMA/UFC fighting. I ran into George The Animal Steele a couple times when I lived in Detroit, he used to be the football coach at the high school where I lived in Madison Heights and still owned a house there or had family there. I never asked him if wrestling was fake because I was afraid of being body slammed or something.

Until the late 1980s while it was generally known that professional wrestling was not on the level, the wrestling business
itself never acknowledged that fact. But in 1989, wrestling promoter "Vince McMahon confessed, once and for all, before the New Jersey State Senate that professional wrestling matches were staged events. It was an effort on McMahon's part, successful as it turned out, to get around taxation on his house shows and pay-per-view events." (per an article on Slam Sports).http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Wrestling/Bio ... vince.html

[rhickok1109]

Yes, the public are morons, and I personally don't understand how pro wrestling is fixed yet that ridiculous kick boxing, anything-gies, inside a cage nonsense is not fixed.

If wrestling were real, it would be that MMA/UFC fighting. I ran into George The Animal Steele a couple times when I lived in Detroit, he used to be the football coach at the high school where I lived in Madison Heights and still owned a house there or had family there. I never asked him if wrestling was fake because I was afraid of being body slammed or something.

Until the late 1980s while it was generally known that professional wrestling was not on the level, the wrestling business
itself never acknowledged that fact. But in 1989, wrestling promoter "Vince McMahon confessed, once and for all, before the New Jersey State Senate that professional wrestling matches were staged events. It was an effort on McMahon's part, successful as it turned out, to get around taxation on his house shows and pay-per-view events." (per an article on Slam Sports).http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Wrestling/Bio ... vince.html

The business may not have acknowledged it, but several retired wrestlers did. About 60 years, a couple of them appeared on the TV show Omnibus and demonstrated some of the tricks they used to make it look as if they were being really violent without hurting one another.

[7DnBrnc53]

A podcast with Brian Tuohy on Boomer and Carton:

Link died

One pro football player he mentioned: George Blanda.

[MarbleEye]

Most of the foregoing "new" posts refer to the NFL of today. The NFL of the 1950's had a much smaller public profile and far less television exposure. If Bobby Layne ever shaved points in the 1950's, I think he could have easily gotten away with it. Especially if he had action on the game himself and didn't take a bribe from a second party, IOW if he could cash a bet, but no one knew he was going to shave points but he himself.

Whether he did it or not, I don't pretend to know/ If I was presented with evidence that he did, I'd have no trouble at all believing it. In an era when Bert Bell was making the schedule up yearly on his kitchen table, I have no trouble believing anything re: game fixing, shaving points etc. was going on. Players didn't make the kind of insane money they do today, although they were still very well paid in most cases compared to the average man.

Pre-1958 (NFL Title Game) and Post-1969 (Jets Super Bowl win) comparing the two versions of the NFL is apples and oranges. The level of scrutiny went up by magnitudes in that decade increasing exponentially each year.