'50/'51 Giants

[nicefellow31]

According to this article, Landry came up with the flex in 1964 to combat the "run to daylight" concepts being used by Green Bay.
https://www.dmagazine.com/publications/ ... t-defense/

[Saban1]

1964 may have been when Landry first used it at Dallas, but he used a version of the flex defense during the late 50's when he was defensive coordinator with the New York Giants.

[74_75_78_79_]

What, IYOs, do you all consider the true 'legacy' of the Flex? A bit too complex for its own good? Great, at least in its day, against the run (did well vs Franco) but prone to being suspect against a potent deep passing attack (Bradshaw-to-Swann/Stallworth)? Landry maybe leaving a few more Lombardis on the table due to it instead of simply allowing his D to go all-out, letting its players play to their raw strengths? Could it dare be used in today's game?

In 1952, the Browns, having their worst season up to that point, would have had to beat the Eagles in a playoff after their loss to the Giants in their regular season final game except that Philadelphia lost to Washington in their last game that year.

I didn't consider the Eagles still being in the hunt going into the final week! Unless the Phi/Wash game was already decided earlier in the day before the Browns/Giants game began (which I doubt), then it can indeed be considered a 'real' sweep by the G-men for Cleveland did have something to seriously play for...they not having to play in a tie-breaker the following week! The Browns did have themselves an "off" year in '52! Although it wasn't their first rodeo as far as NFLCG-appearances were concerned, I guess you can compare them to the '60 Packers. Both teams simply a mere "good" at 8-4, but good enough to at least get out of their conference!

[nicefellow31]

1964 may have been when Landry first used it at Dallas, but he used a version of the flex defense during the late 50's when he was defensive coordinator with the New York Giants.

Do you have a source on him using the Flex in New York? All I could find was him developing the 4-3 with the Giants and then the Flex in Dallas. Spent some time searching this evening and came up with the following.

His episode of a Football Life discusses it.
https://youtu.be/Hal35i57-9g?list=PL_gb ... 6ZS&t=1067

In addition Coach Troup and John Turney talk about him developing and unveiling the Flex in Dallas in this article
http://nflfootballjournal.blogspot.com/ ... ts-in.html

[Saban1]

Here is one from Defensive fronts in the 1950's, part 2., which I googled.

And of Tom Landry's Defenses Circa 1958.

New York under its defensive coach, Tom Landry, built its great defense utilizing the same "flex" concept Landry still uses with the Dallas Cowboys. Etc., etc.

[NWebster]

Landry used the "Flex" with the Giants when he was defensive coach with the Giants during the late 50's. I have read that in different places

Like many things I think the advent of the flex isn't so cut and dry. I've seen the Colts on film from 57 and 58 running it. 57 being Jim Browns rookie year you'd have to imagine that Landry "invented" it and it was then immediately stolen. I think more likely is that John Bridget's under Ewbank (who used to coach D Line under Paul Brown - no coincidence) were looking to take advantage of the speed and light feet of Big Daddy, this is where you hear a lot of the noise about Big Daddy playing LB. He did line up there a handful of times but far more frequently he was a flexed DT. Landry no doubt popularized it though, maybe a LeBeau to Arnsparger kind of thing.

[nicefellow31]

Here is one from Defensive fronts in the 1950's, part 2., which I googled.

And of Tom Landry's Defenses Circa 1958.

New York under its defensive coach, Tom Landry, built its great defense utilizing the same "flex" concept Landry still uses with the Dallas Cowboys. Etc., etc.

Thanks. I'll give it a read.

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Gave it a read. Good stuff. So the Flex we saw in Dallas evolved from the 4-3 inside and 4-3 outside he used in NY.

https://codeandfootball.wordpress.com/2 ... -rob-ryan/

I also found this part interesting which someone has already pointed out.

When introduced, it caused a lot of confusion, because Dallas soon came to be able to play the 43 inside/outside from the Flex set. That was the upside, as no one knew what they were actually playing. The downside is the weak side defensive end’s pass rush was effectively stuffed whenever the Flex was played. By the late 1970s early 1980s, it became almost automatic for teams to pass when they saw the Flex. Consequently, as Charlie Waters explains in Golenbock’s book, the Flex was played less and less.

[rhickok1109]

Landry used the "Flex" with the Giants when he was defensive coach with the Giants during the late 50's. I have read that in different places

Doesn't that negate your previous statement he developed it to stop Jim Brown?

Anyway, I'd love to see some sources showing that the Flex Defense was developed before 1964 because everything I've seen indicates that that was the year he introduced it.

[Saban1]

Here is something right from the horse's mouth, so to speak. Tom Landry wrote the forward for Sam Huff's book "Tough Stuff." Here is part of that:

I was teaching a new way to play defense. Instead of reacting to the play and pursuing, we used a coordinated defense that plugged all the gaps along the line of scrimmage. "Gap control" is what we called it. It was the same philosophy I took to the Cowboys that became known as the "Flex" defense

[Saban1]

The Cleveland Browns were the main rival to the New York Giants during the late 50's. Jim Brown was a rookie in 1957 and the Browns won the Eastern Conference that year over the New York Giants. Sure, the Giants used their "gap control" against other teams, but I am sure that Jim Brown and Cleveland's running game is the main reason that he invented it.