1945 Chicago Bear - who wore #67?
1945 Chicago Bear - who wore #67?
I was viewing an old 1945 Bears-Packers game and I couldn't find anything on who wore #67 for the Bears. I even found a team photo from that season but no one sports that number. About the only thing I can say for sure is that he played Left Linebacker on defense during this game. Can anyone shine a light on who he was?
Re: 1945 Chicago Bear - who wore #67?
Which Bears-Packers game was it? They played 30-Sep-1945 at City Stadium and 04-Nov-1945 at Wrigley Field.
Re: 1945 Chicago Bear - who wore #67?
In the team photo that year there is a players sitting between #76 (Rudy Smeja) and #66 who is wearing a number that ends in 7 (blocked by #37's head). It almost looks like Johnny Schiechl. He also wore #66 that year - but that was also Bulldog Turner's number (but he only played in two games).
Re: 1945 Chicago Bear - who wore #67?
After much digging, a simple answer - no idea!
The 1945 Bears Media Guide has no #67 listed.
I have the following Bears programs and none of them list a #67.
18-Sep-1945 (ex) Philadelphia at Bethlehem, PA
04-Nov-1945 Green Bay at Wrigley Field
11-Nov-1945 Detriot at Wrigley Field
25-Nov-1945 Pittsburgh at Wrigley Field
That doesn't mean there wasn't one however
Schiechl is listed as #66 throughout and there is also a clear in game photo of him wearing that number vs Detroit, as well as the team photo.
The player in between Rudy Smeja (#76) and Schiechl (#66) in the team photo looks like Ray "Scooter" McLean (#57).
Bulldog Turner only played two games (at Detroit, 28-Oct, and vs Pittsburgh, 25-Nov). Not sure what he wore against Detroit, but the Chicago Tribune archives have a photo of him wearing #29 against the Steelers.
George McAfee is listed as #33 in the Steelers (25-Nov) program, although the above photo with Turner as #29 also has McAfee in it and it doesn't look like he has a double digit number, so probably was back at #5. He wore #33 with the Jacsksonville Naval Station and may have worn it on his return at Washington the week before. Johnny Long was #33 earlier in the season.
Future Hall of Famer Joe Stydahar is wearing #18 in the back row of the team photo and there is also an in game photo of him wearing this number. Frank Ramsey had his #13.
The Bears had so many lineup changes during 1945 that someone may have pulled on #67 during one of the Packers games (maybe Schiechl in the opener?), but no obvious proof exists.
The 1945 Bears Media Guide has no #67 listed.
I have the following Bears programs and none of them list a #67.
18-Sep-1945 (ex) Philadelphia at Bethlehem, PA
04-Nov-1945 Green Bay at Wrigley Field
11-Nov-1945 Detriot at Wrigley Field
25-Nov-1945 Pittsburgh at Wrigley Field
That doesn't mean there wasn't one however
Schiechl is listed as #66 throughout and there is also a clear in game photo of him wearing that number vs Detroit, as well as the team photo.
The player in between Rudy Smeja (#76) and Schiechl (#66) in the team photo looks like Ray "Scooter" McLean (#57).
Bulldog Turner only played two games (at Detroit, 28-Oct, and vs Pittsburgh, 25-Nov). Not sure what he wore against Detroit, but the Chicago Tribune archives have a photo of him wearing #29 against the Steelers.
George McAfee is listed as #33 in the Steelers (25-Nov) program, although the above photo with Turner as #29 also has McAfee in it and it doesn't look like he has a double digit number, so probably was back at #5. He wore #33 with the Jacsksonville Naval Station and may have worn it on his return at Washington the week before. Johnny Long was #33 earlier in the season.
Future Hall of Famer Joe Stydahar is wearing #18 in the back row of the team photo and there is also an in game photo of him wearing this number. Frank Ramsey had his #13.
The Bears had so many lineup changes during 1945 that someone may have pulled on #67 during one of the Packers games (maybe Schiechl in the opener?), but no obvious proof exists.
Last edited by LJP on Wed Nov 26, 2014 11:58 am, edited 4 times in total.
Re: 1945 Chicago Bear - who wore #67?
Bears lineups from the two Packers games...
30-Sep-1945 at Green Bay
LE - Smeja | LT - Roberts | LG - Sprinkle | C - Schiechl | RG - Zorich | RT - Babartsky | RE - Berry
QB - Long
FB - Vodicka
LH - Mooney | RH - Mitchell
Substitutes > End - Kavanaugh & Morton. Tackle - Artoe, Hoptowit, Ramsey & Babartsky. Guard - Perez, Gudauskus & Zorich. Center - Masterson. Backs - Luckman, Ronzani, Gallarneau, Famiglietti, Grygo, Fordham & Margarita.
#
04-Nov-1945 vs Green Bay
LE - Wilson | LT - Daniell | LG - Sprinkle | C - Schiechl | RG - Zorich | RT - Artoe | RE - Smeja
QB - McLean
FB - Fordham
LH - Margarita | RH - Gallarneau
Substitutes > End - Berry, Kavanaugh & Morton. Tackle - Babartsky & Hoptowit. Guard - Roberts & Ramsey. Center - Mucha. Backs - Famiglietti, Ronzani, Luckman, Grygo & Swisher.
30-Sep-1945 at Green Bay
LE - Smeja | LT - Roberts | LG - Sprinkle | C - Schiechl | RG - Zorich | RT - Babartsky | RE - Berry
QB - Long
FB - Vodicka
LH - Mooney | RH - Mitchell
Substitutes > End - Kavanaugh & Morton. Tackle - Artoe, Hoptowit, Ramsey & Babartsky. Guard - Perez, Gudauskus & Zorich. Center - Masterson. Backs - Luckman, Ronzani, Gallarneau, Famiglietti, Grygo, Fordham & Margarita.
#
04-Nov-1945 vs Green Bay
LE - Wilson | LT - Daniell | LG - Sprinkle | C - Schiechl | RG - Zorich | RT - Artoe | RE - Smeja
QB - McLean
FB - Fordham
LH - Margarita | RH - Gallarneau
Substitutes > End - Berry, Kavanaugh & Morton. Tackle - Babartsky & Hoptowit. Guard - Roberts & Ramsey. Center - Mucha. Backs - Famiglietti, Ronzani, Luckman, Grygo & Swisher.
Last edited by LJP on Wed Nov 26, 2014 12:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: 1945 Chicago Bear - who wore #67?
Thanks, although not really any closer to positively identifying #67.
One possibility is T Lee Artoe... I have a copy of the Bears roster from the Packers (30-Sep-1945) program. It lists 29 players for the Bears. They used 26 in the game according to the lineup in the Tribune, with E Abe Croft (#12), C Fred Mundee (#20), B John Hunt (#25) & T Glen Burgeis (#29) the ones listed in the program who did not play. T Lee Artoe is the only player missing from the roster page who did play in the game, as a backup T, knocking out Larry Craig of the Packers on a kickoff and being ejected. Artoe is later listed during the season as #1 (I have seen photographic proof of this too), but could he have possibly worn #67 in the first game? He may have subsequently changed his jersey number to avoid retaliation in the return match, although it didn't work as Ken Keuper threw an elbow in his face on 04-Nov, breaking his nose, upper & lower jaws and knocking out 11 teeth in the process.
Artoe and Frank Ramsey appear to have been late additions at the start of the season, as neither appeared in any of the three exhibition games. Ramsey is listed as #31 in the Packers program, but subsequently appears as #13. Additionally, the Bears had a number of other players on their roster during the exhibition games, with two players (Joe Darwish #13 at T and Bill Mayther #31 at C) seeing some action. The roster limit in 1945 was apparently 33, so the Bears appear to have had a number (3) of empty roster spots for the opener at Green Bay. It's possible that they had other players on the roster, but were not listed in the program. Also possible, that one or more of these players could have played and not be listed in the newspaper lineups.
Jersey numbers are always difficult with the older games. Apart from out of date and inaccurate information in the programs (especially when on the road), there are few in game photos that can positively identify a specific player and number. In addition, players sometimes switched numbers or may have worn a different number just the once, for whatever reason. Without photographic proof, it is hard to know if number changes that appear in the programs were legitimate, or just the result of an error being corrected.
One possibility is T Lee Artoe... I have a copy of the Bears roster from the Packers (30-Sep-1945) program. It lists 29 players for the Bears. They used 26 in the game according to the lineup in the Tribune, with E Abe Croft (#12), C Fred Mundee (#20), B John Hunt (#25) & T Glen Burgeis (#29) the ones listed in the program who did not play. T Lee Artoe is the only player missing from the roster page who did play in the game, as a backup T, knocking out Larry Craig of the Packers on a kickoff and being ejected. Artoe is later listed during the season as #1 (I have seen photographic proof of this too), but could he have possibly worn #67 in the first game? He may have subsequently changed his jersey number to avoid retaliation in the return match, although it didn't work as Ken Keuper threw an elbow in his face on 04-Nov, breaking his nose, upper & lower jaws and knocking out 11 teeth in the process.
Artoe and Frank Ramsey appear to have been late additions at the start of the season, as neither appeared in any of the three exhibition games. Ramsey is listed as #31 in the Packers program, but subsequently appears as #13. Additionally, the Bears had a number of other players on their roster during the exhibition games, with two players (Joe Darwish #13 at T and Bill Mayther #31 at C) seeing some action. The roster limit in 1945 was apparently 33, so the Bears appear to have had a number (3) of empty roster spots for the opener at Green Bay. It's possible that they had other players on the roster, but were not listed in the program. Also possible, that one or more of these players could have played and not be listed in the newspaper lineups.
Jersey numbers are always difficult with the older games. Apart from out of date and inaccurate information in the programs (especially when on the road), there are few in game photos that can positively identify a specific player and number. In addition, players sometimes switched numbers or may have worn a different number just the once, for whatever reason. Without photographic proof, it is hard to know if number changes that appear in the programs were legitimate, or just the result of an error being corrected.
Re: 1945 Chicago Bear - who wore #67?
It was the 30-Sep-1945 game.LJP wrote:Which Bears-Packers game was it? They played 30-Sep-1945 at City Stadium and 04-Nov-1945 at Wrigley Field.
And I owe the board an apology! The number was 76, not 67! Not sure how I switched the numbers but I did (I just rechecked the game footage to be sure). I apparently did the same thing when I checked the team photo from Bears.com! Someone slap me.
It looks like ToddMayer and LJP got the answer for me: Rudy Smeja. He is at LLB (Left End, technically, but he played standing up on the outside) during the game against Green Bay. The conversation is quite interesting though; I'm trying to determine the defensive lineups of the 1945 teams--which is rather difficult, as I'm sure everyone can imagine. I'm fortunate to have games for each team on DVD but the lineups tended to change (as did the numbers worn, as has been pointed out) over the season. This is especially true of 1945, with players returning from the service during the season. Still, it's fun to research!
Re: 1945 Chicago Bear - who wore #67?
In their 10 games in 1945, the Bears had 10 different starting lineups.
Number of starts at each position indicated...
LE - Smeja (6), Kavanaugh (2), Berry (1), Wilson (1)
LT - Babartsky (4), Daniell (4), Roberts (1), Masterson (1)
LG - Sprinkle (5), Gudauskas (2), Roberts (1), Zorich (1), Daniell (1)
C - Schiechl (5), Turner (2), Mucha (2), Mundee (1)
RG - Zorich (5), Gudauskas (2), Hoptowit (1), Burgeis (1), Drulis (1)
RT - Artoe (7), Babartsky (1), Hoptowit (1), Ramsey (1)
RE - Wilson (5), Berry (2), Kavanaugh (1), Morton (1), Smeja (1)
QB - Ronzani (3), Long (2), Luckman (2), Mooney (2), McLean (1)
LH - Margarita (8), Mooney (1), Perkins (1)
RH - Gallarneau (6), Grygo (2), Mitchell (1), McAfee (1)
FB - Fordham (5), Vodicka (3), Mooney (1), Perkins (1)
Throw in all of the different combinations of starters and subtitutions and it is hard to know who would play on the DL and who would drop off as a LB.
Most of the backs probably just played DB, although Gary Famiglietti and Jim Fordham were both 215lb+ so may have played some LB too.
Number of starts at each position indicated...
LE - Smeja (6), Kavanaugh (2), Berry (1), Wilson (1)
LT - Babartsky (4), Daniell (4), Roberts (1), Masterson (1)
LG - Sprinkle (5), Gudauskas (2), Roberts (1), Zorich (1), Daniell (1)
C - Schiechl (5), Turner (2), Mucha (2), Mundee (1)
RG - Zorich (5), Gudauskas (2), Hoptowit (1), Burgeis (1), Drulis (1)
RT - Artoe (7), Babartsky (1), Hoptowit (1), Ramsey (1)
RE - Wilson (5), Berry (2), Kavanaugh (1), Morton (1), Smeja (1)
QB - Ronzani (3), Long (2), Luckman (2), Mooney (2), McLean (1)
LH - Margarita (8), Mooney (1), Perkins (1)
RH - Gallarneau (6), Grygo (2), Mitchell (1), McAfee (1)
FB - Fordham (5), Vodicka (3), Mooney (1), Perkins (1)
Throw in all of the different combinations of starters and subtitutions and it is hard to know who would play on the DL and who would drop off as a LB.
Most of the backs probably just played DB, although Gary Famiglietti and Jim Fordham were both 215lb+ so may have played some LB too.
Re: 1945 Chicago Bear - who wore #67?
I've seen Fordham listed as a Linebacker but I think he played DB in this game. Not sure about Famiglietti. I plan to go back and recheck.