NFL 100 All Time Team QB's

[JameisLoseston]

Agree with the takes on modern QBs. Not fair to completely disqualify them from GOAT discussions, of course, but they absolutely need to be taken with a grain of salt because all the dumb rule changes and stickum gloves have made passing way too easy. The stats today can no longer be compared to any other era. It was fine until about 2011, seemed like natural inflation, but then it went into overdrive and stopped being fun anymore. Awful roughing calls are everywhere now and 5000 yards barely means anything anymore, I mean my God, Jameis Christ Himself is about to do it! Namath's 4000 is all the more impressive because after that, no one did it again until 16 games came. I can't wait for this Jordan-rules, video game offense to get old and go away.

It's exactly why I respect Marino so much. You're making my point for me. This man was just as dominant as today's passers without any benefit of "don't breathe on the QB" rules. His records stood for over 20 years, whereas passing records now barely last a few seasons. And you're telling me John Elway was better, so disrespectful!! I have no problem with Elway in particular, I never once said he didn't deserve HOF or nomination, and if he was in a crappy system for all of those 10 years then I stand corrected about him being average in that stretch. But dear God, what do I have to say to get Dan Marino the glorification he deserves?

[JameisLoseston]

is it possible that van brocklin doesnt make the final cut

This post and reading the Elway v. Marino debate reminded me of the debate about Graham v. Van Brocklin several years ago that originated from their wisdom of crowds QB ranking: http://www.footballperspective.com/grea ... wds-recap/. The top 10 were:

Manning, Montana, Brady, Unitas, Marino, Young, Favre, Elway, Graham, and Staubach.

This is a plenty good ranking. Marino and Young, heck yeah. Only glaring omission is Baugh, but if he is considered as a pure passer, he probably doesn't belong. I deeply hope the committee won't do this and I doubt they will, they'll get Baugh on, but I don't have a particular problem with this ranking doing it.

[Oszuscik]

The stats today can no longer be compared to any other era. It was fine until about 2011, seemed like natural inflation, but then it went into overdrive and stopped being fun anymore.

I really equate the change of eras to the 2009 season and the Tom Brady Rule. That’s when the “Madden Era” began for me. Significant rule changes that went into effect that year radically changed the look of the NFL to me. Major rules to protect quarterbacks and defenseless receivers, not to mention the first step in neutering the kickoff by eliminating the wedge block. To me, passing stats from 2009 on are kind of just their own thing.

[Bob Gill]

Many of you might not be old enough to remember it, but there was another crucial season for rule changes back in 1978. I forget just what rules were changed that year, but I believe that was when they made it legal for blockers to extend their arms, along with another reduction in how much contact defensive players could make with receivers. (It may have been the year "illegal contact" became a penalty, or maybe not.) The interception rate took an immediate downturn, far more than the normal decline that had been going on for years -- all this despite the fact that Fran Tarkenton threw 32 in what turned out to be his final season.

These changes made passing much less risky than it had ever been, what with far fewer interceptions and holding penalties, and within just a few years almost everybody was putting the ball in the air more than ever before.

[Oszuscik]

Many of you might not be old enough to remember it, but there was another crucial season for rule changes back in 1978. I forget just what rules were changed that year, but I believe that was when they made it legal for blockers to extend their arms, along with another reduction in how much contact defensive players could make with receivers. (It may have been the year "illegal contact" became a penalty, or maybe not.) The interception rate took an immediate downturn, far more than the normal decline that had been going on for years -- all this despite the fact that Fran Tarkenton threw 32 in what turned out to be his final season.

These changes made passing much less risky than it had ever been, what with far fewer interceptions and holding penalties, and within just a few years almost everybody was putting the ball in the air more than ever before.

Very true about ‘78! You’re right though, I wasn’t alive yet to witness it. What was the general feeling regarding those rule changes back then? Did people groan that it changed the game too much and made passing too easy? Or were the changes well received?

I feel the NFL’s sweet spot was the 80’s and 90’s as far as balance with offense vs defense, and pass vs run. Might just be because that’s the era I grew up on though.

[BD Sullivan]

Below are the two key 1978 rule changes, with the elimination of the "chuck" the most relevant to changing the emphasis on the pass:

Screenshot 2019-12-26 at 9.39.15 AM.png (201.89 KiB) Viewed 19033 times

[SixtiesFan]

Many of you might not be old enough to remember it, but there was another crucial season for rule changes back in 1978. I forget just what rules were changed that year, but I believe that was when they made it legal for blockers to extend their arms, along with another reduction in how much contact defensive players could make with receivers. (It may have been the year "illegal contact" became a penalty, or maybe not.) The interception rate took an immediate downturn, far more than the normal decline that had been going on for years -- all this despite the fact that Fran Tarkenton threw 32 in what turned out to be his final season.

These changes made passing much less risky than it had ever been, what with far fewer interceptions and holding penalties, and within just a few years almost everybody was putting the ball in the air more than ever before.

Very true about ‘78! You’re right though, I wasn’t alive yet to witness it. What was the general feeling regarding those rule changes back then? Did people groan that it changed the game too much and made passing too easy? Or were the changes well received?

I feel the NFL’s sweet spot was the 80’s and 90’s as far as balance with offense vs defense, and pass vs run. Might just be because that’s the era I grew up on though.

I was around then. The increase in passing and scoring was well received. Not many complaints as I recall. The low scoring, defensive games by 1977 were making it dull, long bomb passing TDs had become rare.

Pat Haden, LA Ram QB Rhodes Scholar-law student, left football in 1982 and wrote an article for Sports Illustrated. Haden wrote that he had no patience for those who complained the new rules made it easier for quarterbacks. "I was hit just as hard and often under the new rules as I had been before," he said.

[BD Sullivan]

One interesting note about those 1978 rule changes: most of the articles on the changes made a bigger deal about the league adopting a taunting rule.

[conace21]

Bradshaw, Staubach, and Fouts were three quarterbacks who saw a marked uptick in their statistics after the rules changes. One thing that I always thought was strange, was Ken Stabler's numbers tanked after the rules changes. He did rebound slightly in 1979, but if his game had taken a similar upturn after 1977, Snake would have been a slam dunk HOF player.
Of course, the protection he received from his offensive line was so great, it didn't really matter that his blockers could extend their arms.

[JameisLoseston]

Many of you might not be old enough to remember it, but there was another crucial season for rule changes back in 1978. I forget just what rules were changed that year, but I believe that was when they made it legal for blockers to extend their arms, along with another reduction in how much contact defensive players could make with receivers. (It may have been the year "illegal contact" became a penalty, or maybe not.) The interception rate took an immediate downturn, far more than the normal decline that had been going on for years -- all this despite the fact that Fran Tarkenton threw 32 in what turned out to be his final season.

These changes made passing much less risky than it had ever been, what with far fewer interceptions and holding penalties, and within just a few years almost everybody was putting the ball in the air more than ever before.

Yeah, I notice a sharp uptick in passing proficiency in the late 70s too, when things like Air Coryell started happening, Staubach officially sealed his HOF case, and of course Marino. Makes sense that something like this had something to do with it. Interestingly, Dan Reeves and John Elway seemed not to notice whatsoever. But in this case, with how the 70s played out, I'd say it was a welcome change. No QBs really stood out in the first 8 years of the decade, there were like 8 of them all equally as good (read: mediocre) as each other, Tarkenton was the closest to separating. Same with WRs. OJ was legitimately the only offensive superstar in the NFL at one point. Something had to give.

The comment about Tarkenton's final season reminds me of what Jameis is doing right now. In spite of my username and lifelong Bucs fandom, I have come to love the dude and what he's doing for the league this year. I still think Fitzpatrick, my favorite QB of all time, would have been a better choice for us, but the new and improved Winston is still a breath of fresh air because he's seamlessly merging the old and new. Last year was the first time ever that the league leader in picks dipped to just one per game, and the only guys to go above 20 since 2013 are Rivers and the inimitably horrible Deshone Kizer. Interceptions are great, they belong in the game, and unfortunately they're dying. Everything is all one color now. Enter Jameis, who is basically doing what Tarkenton and others did, but on a scale more appropriate to the modern QB (5000 yards). He's making passing seem dangerous again, while remaining highly productive. I think that's the way it should be around the league, I wouldn't even mind the inflated yardage numbers if the INT rate would go up again. Yards are ultimately pretty meaningless to everyone but fantasy owners, and other than a few outliers, passing TDs have seemed to regress to historical levels now that Rodgers/Brees/Brady are declining. A close to even TD/INT ratio is how football worked for 50 years, and that gap widening, more than the yardage totals, is what's making passing seem so boringly easy. Winston showing that the old ratios and new counting numbers can work in combination is great for football imo. What do you think, is Jameis providing a sustainable model for how the passing game should work going forward?