Harold Ely #275 Started by LJP

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Harold Ely #275
Started by LJP, Nov 07 2013 04:26 AM

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#1 LJP
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Posted 07 November 2013 - 04:26 AM
Did T Harold Ely wear jersey # 275 during the 1932 NFL season?

At the start of the season, Ely is recorded in the Green Bay (25-Sep) and Staten Island (02-Oct) programs at # 11.

By the time of the Bears exhibition game with the Brooklyn Dodgers (19-Oct) he is listed at # 75, although whilst the program for this game lists the players numerically, Ely appears after Ookie Miller (# 76) and Red Grange (# 77), which seemed a bit odd.

Stranger still is the 24-Nov program for the Bears game against the Chicago Cardinals, where Ely is listed as # 275.

My assumption was that this is just a typo, although again Ely is listed after Miller and Grange.

Anyway, what turns up yesterday on an auction site, but a photo of Ely wearing # 275.

While it is not a photo of him wearing that number in a game, only a publicity shot, I can't imagine George Halas spending the time or money on a jersey like that and not then using it in a game.

Were there actually any restrictions on what jersey numbers could be worn back in the 1920s and 1930s?

#2 Mark L. Ford
Administrators
Posted 07 November 2013 - 09:22 AM
It appears that he's standing on a butcher shop scale, for a news photo, and that the 275 signifies his weight. Back in 1932, a 275 pound player would have been considered one of the heaviest in the NFL.

#3 LJP
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Posted 08 November 2013 - 04:06 AM
The previously mentioned 24-Nov Bears Cardinals program reference appears to be my error. Back at home now and cannot locate a copy of this program in my files. I think the program that I was thinking of was the 23-Oct Bears game against Staten Island at Wrigley Field and Ely is # 275 in this one (attached).
Attached Thumbnails

#4 LJP
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Posted 02 October 2014 - 03:13 PM
In game photo of Harold Ely wearing # 275 against the Chicago Cardinals, on October 9 1932

http://archives.chic...2/10/10/page/21

#5 Mark L. Ford
Administrators
Posted 02 October 2014 - 04:09 PM
I had seen the publicity photo, but didn't realize he had worn it in a game. Interesting find.

On another jerseys note, John Maxymuk (author of the excellent book Uniform Numbers of the NFL, which I think was limited to teams that existed after 1933) had noted in a separate site that the Orange (NJ) Tornadoes had used letters instead of numbers on their uniforms, which is amazing-- it's on Tod Maher's site as well. For instance, end Phil Scott wore "A", safety Felix McCormick was "B", etc. ... I'm wondering if anyone has a photograph of that game. The Tribune had no photo of the Cardinals-Tornadoes game, which was played in New Jersey rather than Chicago.

#6 LJP
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Posted 02 October 2014 - 04:17 PM
The Gridiron Uniform Database has a picture of the 1929 Orange Tornadoes and one player is visibly wearing the letter 0 on his back.

http://gud-updates.b...-tornadoes.html

#7 oldecapecod 11
PFRA Member
Posted 02 October 2014 - 05:44 PM
LJP
Posted Today, 04:17 PM
"The Gridiron Uniform Database has a picture of the 1929 Orange Tornadoes and one player is visibly wearing the letter 0 on his back."

Who is to say different? But... it looks as though his the teammate is wearing a very small Number 12 on the front of his jersey which is in keeping with the image shown at the web site with a number (small) on front and the letter (much larger) on back?

#8 rhickok1109
PFRA Member
Posted 03 October 2014 - 09:11 AM
LJP, on 02 Oct 2014 - 4:17 PM, said:
The Gridiron Uniform Database has a picture of the 1929 Orange Tornadoes and one player is visibly wearing the letter 0 on his back.

http://gud-updates.b...-tornadoes.html
Could it be a zero

oldecapecod 11, on 02 Oct 2014 - 5:44 PM, said:
LJP
Posted Today, 04:17 PM
"The Gridiron Uniform Database has a picture of the 1929 Orange Tornadoes and one player is visibly wearing the letter 0 on his back."

Who is to say different? But... it looks as though his the teammate is wearing a very small Number 12 on the front of his jersey which is in keeping with the image shown at the web site with a number (small) on front and the letter (much larger) on back?

Could that "O" be a zero? The NFL doesn't allow it any more, but there were some players who wore zero or double-zero; most notably Jim Otto, who wore double zero and insisted it was "aught-O." I remember a Pittsburgh player from my childhood, Johnny "Zero" Clement (not to be confused with teammate Bob Cifers).

#9 oldecapecod 11
Posted 03 October 2014 - 10:33 AM
rhickok1109
Posted Today, 08:11 AM
LJP, on 02 Oct 2014 - 4:17 PM, said:
The Gridiron Uniform Database has a picture of the 1929 Orange Tornadoes and one player is visibly wearing the letter 0 on his back.
http://gud-updates.b...-tornadoes.html

"Could it be a zero"

oldecapecod 11, on 02 Oct 2014 - 5:44 PM, said:
LJP
Posted Today, 04:17 PM
"The Gridiron Uniform Database has a picture of the 1929 Orange Tornadoes and one player is visibly wearing the letter 0 on his back."
Who is to say different? But... it looks as though his the teammate is wearing a very small Number 12 on the front of his jersey which is in keeping with the image shown at the web site with a number (small) on front and the letter (much larger) on back?

"Could that "O" be a zero? The NFL doesn't allow it any more, but there were some players who wore zero or double-zero; most notably Jim Otto, who wore double zero and insisted it was "aught-O." I remember a Pittsburgh player from my childhood, Johnny "Zero" Clement (not to be confused with teammate Bob Cifers)."

-----

My first thought was that it is a "zero" but then, after seeing the uniform web site, I think it is an "O."
Why else would they show the front and back of the jersey with different attachments? Also, if it is the number "zero," it is disproportionately large when compared to the tiny number 12 on the teammate's shirt (if, in fact, that is a 12?)

By the way, wasn't there another "double zero" and also a single "0?"
Maybe it is just nothing?

=====

This thread brings to mind another question. Except for "sales," is there still a need for names on the backs of the jerseys? I think not.
With the synthetics used for the uniforms of today, there is no bleeding of colors and the sophistication of the medium (TV) has eliminated the blurred images of the early days.
If they keep adding trash to the jerseys, pretty soon it will look like a NASCAR event.

Waddaya wanna bet that some day soon you will see an advertisement painted right on the field - maybe two, one at each end.

=====

PS How about Dan Dufour; the two Fourcades; John and Keith; Sid Fournet; Garth Ten napel; and that foursome of Tripletts, Bill, Mel, Nathan and Wally but not forgetting Larry "2-p" Tripplett.
What a shame Sonny Sixkiller failed both try-outs?

#10 Mark L. Ford
Administrators
Posted 03 October 2014 - 11:01 AM
Two different guys wore the letter "O", according to Maxymuk, Jack MacArthur and Tom Kerrigan, both guards.

I hadn't heard the "aught-O" and Otto connection. The anecdote I always knew about it that he wanted "double-O" because that was the letter that started and ended the name above the number (OttO). His first year, he simply wore "50".

#11 Tod Maher
PFRA Member
Posted 03 October 2014 - 01:40 PM
The 1924 Milwaukee Badgers had some players wearing numbers and some wearing letters. Which was probably confusing when you have one guy wearing 5 (Ben Winkelman) and one guy wearing S (Clem Neacy).

http://www.profootba...1924nflmil.html

#12 Reaser
PFRA Member
Posted 03 October 2014 - 02:01 PM
Steve Bagarus wore number 0 with the Redskins, think he was 00 with the Rams.

Wonder any other players who wore both numbers in their careers.

#13 oldecapecod 11
PFRA Member
Posted 03 October 2014 - 02:14 PM
Ken Burrough wore #00 at Houston.
I am not sure about New Orleans?
1970 New Orleans Saints
1971-1981 Houston Oilers
Now, if I can find that other #0. (I think he was a RB?)

New Orleans No. 00 Ken Burrough
Age Pos G. Rec Yds TD
22. WR 12 13.. 196. 2

EDITED TO ADD N.O.

#14 Tod Maher
PFRA Member
Posted 03 October 2014 - 07:11 PM
LJP, on 02 Oct 2014 - 4:17 PM, said:
The Gridiron Uniform Database has a picture of the 1929 Orange Tornadoes and one player is visibly wearing the letter 0 on his back.

http://gud-updates.b...-tornadoes.html
It's an O not a zero. Orange used letters in 1929:

http://www.profootba...1929nflora.html

#15 LJP
Forum Visitors
Posted 04 October 2014 - 03:55 AM
Typo. Meant O, but typed 0.

#16 John Grasso
Board of Directors
Posted 04 October 2014 - 07:57 AM
oldecapecod 11, on 03 Oct 2014 - 2:14 PM, said:
Ken Burrough wore #00 at Houston.
I am not sure about New Orleans?
1970 New Orleans Saints
1971-1981 Houston Oilers
Now, if I can find that other #0. (I think he was a RB?)

New Orleans No. 00 Ken Burrough
Age Pos G. Rec Yds TD
22. WR 12 13.. 196. 2

Didn't Johnny O (Olszewski) wear #0 for part of his career?

#17 rhickok1109
PFRA Member
Posted 04 October 2014 - 08:23 AM
George Plimpton wore 0 when he was with the Lions. But maybe he shouldn't count, since he was cut before the regular season started.

#18 oldecapecod 11
PFRA Member
Posted 04 October 2014 - 08:44 AM
John Grasso
Location:Guilford, NY
oldecapecod 11, on 03 Oct 2014 - 2:14 PM, said:
Ken Burrough wore #00 at Houston.
I am not sure about New Orleans?
1970 New Orleans Saints
1971-1981 Houston Oilers
Now, if I can find that other #0. (I think he was a RB?)
New Orleans No. 00 Ken Burrough
Age Pos G. Rec Yds TD
22. WR 12 13.. 196. 2

"Didn't Johnny O (Olszewski) wear #0 for part of his career?"
-----
That's the guy.
Here's the pictorial proof.

http://en.wikipedia....ohnny_Olszewski

EDITED TO ADD: A few more photos with #0

http://search.aol.co...eyword_rollover

#19 Mark L. Ford
Administrators
Posted 04 October 2014 - 08:55 AM
LJP, on 02 Oct 2014 - 4:17 PM, said:
The Gridiron Uniform Database has a picture of the 1929 Orange Tornadoes and one player is visibly wearing the letter 0 on his back.

http://gud-updates.b...-tornadoes.html

Kind of sad that when someone photographed a team that wore letters instead of numbers on its uniforms, the only saved photograph was of a guy wearing the letter "O". Nearly anything else-- "K", "W", "Z" -- would have been more interesting....

#20 LJP
Forum Visitors
Posted 04 October 2014 - 09:06 AM
Yeah, the one letter that could get confused for a 0 or O for Orange.
Presumably there are other 1929 photos in the NY Times, or NJ/NY papers?

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Harold Ely # 275
Started by LJP, Nov 07 2013 04:26 AM

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21 replies to this topic

#21 Jeffrey Miller
PFRA Member
Posted 04 October 2014 - 10:24 AM
Obert Logan wore 0 for the Saints in the 1960s ...

#22 LJP
Forum Visitors
Posted 04 October 2014 - 05:32 PM
A cropped version of the original publicity photo of Harold Ely wearing # 275

Over the years, the Bears seem to have reluctantly used jersey # 1

Jake Lanum is listed in the Decatur Staleys vs Moline Universal Tractors program of October 3 1920 as # 1, but wore # 9 in 1921-24, so may have changed number during 1920?

The Bears Media Guide lists Jimmy Conzelman at # 1 and # 15 during 1920, although no evidence for either appears to exist.

Paddy Driscoll is also listed as # 1 and # 20, although there appears to be no evidence of either. He was # 2 in 1926-29 and also apparently # 26 in 1926. Driscoll played for the Staleys in 1920, but his agreement to play against Akron on December 12 was only reported late the night before, so he is unlikely to have appeared in the game program.

The Bears record Oscar Johnson as # 1 and # 10 in 1924, although he only participated in one game, against the Cleveland Bulldogs on October 5.

Otherwise, the only players known to have worn # 1 in a regular season (or post season game) are T Lee Artoe in 1945 and K Jeff Jaeger in 1996-99.