HoF Semifinalists announced

[rewing84]

any reasons on the nonstarters bachs

Taylor and Watters are no’s for me because they did not get over 12K career rushing yards. I know the latter caught a lot of passes, but I’m also lukewarm at best on Roger Craig, and I see the two as similar players, essentially second class versions of Marshall Faulk. RB is also arguably the most over-represented position in Canton, and I’m keen to get more WRs, LBs, and DBs (especially safeties) in first before considering more borderline RBs.

Banks (1/1/80s) and Matthews (1/4/none), while reportedly looking better than their honors, play a position (80s-90s OLB) that is also heavily represented in the HoF. I would rather see more MLBs/ILBs from the time (like Sam Mills or Senior candidate Karl Mecklenburg) get in first. It’s also hard to distinguish them from folks like Greg Lloyd, Cornelius Bennett, and Pat Swilling, all of whom I think are no less deserving at the very least.

Tasker (another tough one for me) is a special teams gunner, and maybe he’s the most deserving to ever perform this role. Or maybe that’s Bill Bates. Or maybe somebody else. I’d like to know who’s really the best here before considering someone. But then, what about dedicated KRs such as Devin Hester or White Shoes Johnson? Are they more, less, or just as deserving? None of them are in the HoF, either, and there’s no precedent for inducting any of them. What’s the pecking order? And should they be pushed ahead of a borderline HoF position player? Not sure about that one, either. My head hurts just trying to sort all this out.



5. who would you replace matthews banks tasker rice watters taylor with
Rice, despite a decent number of sacks, has very thin honors (2/3/none). And if sacks are your thing, he was (best as I can figure) 12th all time at retirement and is now 20th, behind John Abraham, Leslie O’Neal, and Robert Mathis, all of whom have comparable or better honors and aren’t likely getting into the HoF without a ticket. It’s not like he finished close to the top of the career leaders in the statistic. He would also be the fifth defensive player likely to get in (assuming Ronde Barber and John Lynch make it) from a Buccaneers defense that won one title. Sorry, not sold.

YMMV, of course.

1. Agreed on Watters and Taylor

2. Agreed 100% on Banks and Matthews im a bigger fan of mecklenburg than banks and matthews and you make good points on swilling lloyd and bennett

3. Never understood the appeal of Taskers Hof debate

4. Good Points on Rice

5. who would you replace matthews banks tasker rice watters taylor with

[JohnTurney]

Proscout's top 5--- Watters "a must"--Seymour--Bryant Young--Matthews- Troy P

[bachslunch]

Robert, I would replace the six singled out with Steve Wisniewski, Henry Ellard, Sterling Sharpe, Nick Lowery, Gary Anderson, and Albert Lewis.

[JameisLoseston]

Proscout's top 5--- Watters "a must"--Seymour--Bryant Young--Matthews- Troy P

Why such stark differences of opinion on Watters?

[bachslunch]

Proscout's top 5--- Watters "a must"--Seymour--Bryant Young--Matthews- Troy P

Why such stark differences of opinion on Watters?

Can only speak for myself -- my observations are those of an eager armchair observer who does whatever research he can manage and has no film study skills or access. They're likely useful to some degree, but guys like John (and Proscout) have skill and knowledge bases I lack -- and there's no reason not to think they may have better insights.

[Bryan]

Kind of odd about who ended up being left out.

Henry Ellard got left out and Steve Tasker is in.

Shaun Alexander out, Fred Taylor in.

Banks & Matthews over Wilber Marshall.

[JohnTurney]

but guys like John (and Proscout) have skill and knowledge bases I lack -- and there's no reason not to think they may have better insights.

Proscout . . . not me.

They like complete backs and Watters had the requsite 5 "blue" seasons. Watters gets some grief for the "for who, for what?" thing---I leave that to tohers

But running inside, running outside, short-yardage/goal line, receiving (hands and routes), blocking (mostly pass pro, but also some lead), ball security
are things PSI evaluates, and Watters, apparently, scored well.

Not like Faulk or LT, but right there with Roger Craig.

Personally, I'd put Edge in before Watters---but I am arm chair person, too

[JameisLoseston]

Kind of odd about who ended up being left out.

Henry Ellard got left out and Steve Tasker is in.

Shaun Alexander out, Fred Taylor in.

Banks & Matthews over Wilber Marshall.

When is the last time Alexander and Priest Holmes made semifinals? Not sure I recall ever seeing Alexander, their continued blackballing doesn't make much sense when guys like, yeah, Fred Taylor get attention.

[bachslunch]

When is the last time Alexander and Priest Holmes made semifinals? Not sure I recall ever seeing Alexander, their continued blackballing doesn't make much sense when guys like, yeah, Fred Taylor get attention.

I think Taylor made the list because he is the closest eligible RB to the 12K line who isn't over it (Edge is over it). Given that his career was decent and relatively long, it's not surprising -- kind of a lesser compiler type (he never placed higher than 6th in rushing yards in a season). His profile of 0/1/none is nothing special, sorry to say. I wouldn't put him in.

Alexander (2/3/00s) and Holmes (3/3/none) are more "big peak, short career" guys. Kind of like Terrell Davis with a less high peak and less postseason accomplishment. Alexander is arguably the better of the two as his peak lasted longer. I doubt they're going anywhere, and I wouldn't put them in, either.

[bachslunch]

but guys like John (and Proscout) have skill and knowledge bases I lack -- and there's no reason not to think they may have better insights.

Proscout . . . not me.

They like complete backs and Watters had the requsite 5 "blue" seasons. Watters gets some grief for the "for who, for what?" thing---I leave that to tohers

But running inside, running outside, short-yardage/goal line, receiving (hands and routes), blocking (mostly pass pro, but also some lead), ball security
are things PSI evaluates, and Watters, apparently, scored well.

Not like Faulk or LT, but right there with Roger Craig.

Personally, I'd put Edge in before Watters---but I am arm chair person, too

Understood. Though you've got film study skill and knowledge I lack, so I'm thinking in some ways you've got a more authoritative armchair than me.

It's all good, regardless. Put all of us armchair guys here and at Talk of Fame and at Zoneblitz together and you've got something very useful, am thinking.