NFL "what-if" scenarios thread

[BD Sullivan]

The Vikings 1971 defense was good enough that Alan Page was NFL MVP and allowed 10 points or less in nine games. Numbers like that would make any team a winner. Hell, they could have won the playoff game at Dallas with a real QB or a decent running attack. They only gave up 183 yards for the game, but Cuozzo and Lee each threw two picks and Clint Jones was the only RB with more than 15 yards for the game with 52.

The playoff game against Dallas was actually in Minnesota.

The Vikings actually gave up less than 10 points per game over the three year stretch from 1969-71; 133, 143 and 139 for a total of 415 points in 42 games. Add to that the points they scored on interception and fumble returns plus the turnovers that set the mediocre offences up for easy points and you have a defence that was probably the most dominant of all time over a multi-year stretch. Regrettably, it’s vastly underrated and largely forgotten because they didn’t win a SB.

Knew that, yet somehow I managed to type at instead of against

Regarding the Steelers' success from 1957-63, that was largely because Buddy Parker was the precursor to George Allen by trading away their top picks in multiple years. It worked during that time frame, but Parker knew they were collapsing and bolted during the 1965 training camp--just like he did with the Lions eight years earlier.

Finally, the 1968 Cowboys entered that playoff game as slight (three point) favorites on the road. Had the setup been under current conditions, they would have been hosting it and had dominated the Browns in their previous two games at the Cotton Bowl, outscoring them 80-21. A win in that game would have had them hosting the Colts, who the year before, they had lost to on the road, 23-17. They had led 17-10 entering the fourth quarter, with the Colts scoring the game-winning touchdown with less than two minutes left.

[Rupert Patrick]

What if Jim Kelly and Steve Young had gone straight to the NFL and Dan Marino had started in the USFL?

Or, same vane but more extreme....
What if Joe Namath signs with the Cardinals in 1965??
(Namath was drafted #12 by St Louis)

How different are the Cardinals?
What happens to the AFL without it's bonus baby?
And... SBIII?

Namath certainly doesn't become Broadway Joe if he winds up in St. Louis, he instead becomes Gateway Joe. I think he would have a couple good seasons in St. Louis, but the knee injuries would derail his career as they did with the Jets. I think you could argue the Cardinals would have won the 1968 Century Division with Namath over Hart at QB as they finished a half game behind the Browns, and I think you could also argue they would have made the playoffs in 1970 also. I doubt that Namath would have held up as an elite QB until 1974 and 75 when the Cardinals won the NFC Eastern Division with Hart. There is no chance he would have made the Hall of Fame with the Cardinals.

I think the merger talks begin in 1966 regardless of Namath being in New York, as the AFL by that point had eight financially solvent franchises who had survived six seasons (and was expanding to nine), with no franchises folding, and the only franchise relocations were in cities which already had NFL teams and the AFL teams were moving to cities that didn't have a pro team at all. Also, the AFL was getting good ratings and had a solid fanbase. It was clear the AFL wasn't going away anytime soon, and it made the most sense to take their war to the football fields where it belonged.

As for Super Bowl III, without Namath in New York, I think there is a pretty good chance the 1968 Jets still win the AFL Eastern Division, as they won the division by four games over Houston (11-3 to 7-7), and even without Namath, they still had a lot of outstanding players, and I think they would have found somebody halfway decent to play QB. It might have been somebody like Jim Hart. Hart and Snell and Boozer and Maynard and that defense would have won the AFL East in 1968.

The next question is - would Jim Hart and the New York Jets have been able to beat the Raiders for the 1968 AFL Championship? I don't think so. Namath was the 1968 AFL MVP and without him, the Jets would not have defeated the Raiders; Namath was the heart and soul of that team. As for a Raiders-Colts Super Bowl III, it's hard to say. The Raiders were just as good as the Jets, and they had the revenge factor going for them, as they lost to Green Bay the previous season. I think the Raiders could have beaten the Colts, but I wouldn't have bet on it.

[JohnH19]

What if Dallas is not upset by Cleveland in the 1968 Divisional Playoffs? Tom Landry later called the '68 squad the best he ever assembled in Dallas. How do they match up against the Colt juggernaut of that year and who wins that NFL title game?

It would have been an absolutely fantastic match up of two superpowers. I wish it would have happened.

[JohnH19]

The Vikings 1971 defense was good enough that Alan Page was NFL MVP and allowed 10 points or less in nine games. Numbers like that would make any team a winner. Hell, they could have won the playoff game at Dallas with a real QB or a decent running attack. They only gave up 183 yards for the game, but Cuozzo and Lee each threw two picks and Clint Jones was the only RB with more than 15 yards for the game with 52.

The playoff game against Dallas was actually in Minnesota.

The Vikings actually gave up less than 10 points per game over the three year stretch from 1969-71; 133, 143 and 139 for a total of 415 points in 42 games. Add to that the points they scored on interception and fumble returns plus the turnovers that set the mediocre offences up for easy points and you have a defence that was probably the most dominant of all time over a multi-year stretch. Regrettably, it’s vastly underrated and largely forgotten because they didn’t win a SB.

That's probably true but I also think that is only part of the story for why they aren't remembered say as much as the '90's Bills who went through a similar situation. And that is because the '70's Vikings really weren't a very fun team to watch. They were one of those ground and pound teams that expected to win at the hands of their defense and not at the hands of their offense lead by a Hall of Fame quarterback and set of wide receivers.

The '70's Vikings and Rams were really poster boys of the style of play of that era and why the league needed to make some changes toward the end of the decade in order to open things up.

The Vikings offense was dull in '70 and '71 due to poor play at QB. After that they had various combinations of Tarkenton, Foreman, Gilliam, Sammy White, Rashad, competent fullbacks and tight ends, and a terrific offensive line.

The Rams were also loaded everywhere on offense. They went through several different QBs but they were all productive.

You've mentioned in the past that you think the NFL of the '70s was dull. Trust me, it wasn't. Today's game is dull by comparison.

[7DnBrnc53]

A huge "what if": What if Lamar Hunt gets enough of a share of the Cardinals to move them to Dallas in 1959?

There would have been no AFL as a result, and no NFL expansion into Dallas and Minnesota.

So, how long would it have taken for the NFL to expand? And, if Hunt doesn't start the AFL, who would have been the next person to start a new league?

[BD Sullivan]

A huge "what if": What if Lamar Hunt gets enough of a share of the Cardinals to move them to Dallas in 1959?

There would have been no AFL as a result, and no NFL expansion into Dallas and Minnesota.

So, how long would it have taken for the NFL to expand? And, if Hunt doesn't start the AFL, who would have been the next person to start a new league?

Baseball was taking heat about not expanding, so I imagine football would have been next in their cross-hairs.

[ChrisBabcock]

What if Jim Kelly and Steve Young had gone straight to the NFL and Dan Marino had started in the USFL?

With Kelly, this was closer than many people think. In 1983 he was at Rich Stadium about to sign a contract when I call came through from the USFL (I forget who specifically) asking him to not sign and that he'd have his pick of which USFL team to play for. He chose Houston's run & shoot offense. Astounding that the Bills staff let the call through.

[sluggermatt15]

More recently, what if the officials call pass interference on the Rams in the NFCCG last year, and the Saints play in the Super Bowl? Do they beat the Patriots?

[BD Sullivan]

More recently, what if the officials call pass interference on the Rams in the NFCCG last year, and the Saints play in the Super Bowl? Do they beat the Patriots?

Or you could ponder how a Patriots dynasty might have differed if they hadn't benefited from the Tuck Rule.

[JohnH19]

More recently, what if the officials call pass interference on the Rams in the NFCCG last year, and the Saints play in the Super Bowl? Do they beat the Patriots?

Or you could ponder how a Patriots dynasty might have differed if they hadn't benefited from the Tuck Rule.

They would only have won five SBs.