Just watched the 1992 season opener on youtube recently between Dallas and Washington and that got me thinking about the Washington Redskin teams of that era. 1991 (and in a way 1987 as well) were standout years but the Washington teams all seemed pretty similar from about '86-'92. Very solid but not teams that could be considered great with of course the exception of '91.
Was 1991 kind of a perfect alignment for the Redskins with many of their key players peaking at the same time in their careers? They definitely weren't a franchise like the 49ers of the '80's or the Cowboys of the '90's where they rose fast and stayed at the top for several years which in turn gave them the title of team of the decade. THe Redskins of that era were never really the best program at any given point but they were very consistently solid and had a couple years where everything seemed to align just right for them.
Come to think of it Washington in a lot of ways was very similar to the Giants of that era.
Washington Redskins of the late '80's to early '90's
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Rupert Patrick
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Re: Washington Redskins of the late '80's to early '90's
I think if the Redskins had gotten past the Giants in the 1986 NFC Championship game, they would have beaten the Broncos or Browns in the Super Bowl, but it would have been close, less than two points.
In 1987 they were plain lucky. They were lucky in that the Vikings upset the Saints and 49ers, and in that the Broncos upset the Browns, which helped clear the way for them. They were a good team in beating Chicago and Minnesota, but I don't think there is any way they would have gotten past New Orleans or San Francisco or Cleveland. They were a better team than Denver, should have won by three or four points, but Doug Williams perhaps the greatest quarter any QB has ever had and I don't think the 85 Bears could have stopped him in the second quarter.
1991 was one of those seasons where it was clear from the first week of the season that the Redskins were going to roll thru the season like a tornado, leaving every team in it's wake. Everybody just seemed to have career years at just the right point.
It's hard to say if the Redskins collapse in 1993 was due to Gibbs departure, or if he saw the writing on the wall and knew it was a good time to leave. I always felt sad for Richie Petitbon, a longtime assistant getting his first shot at being a head coach and his tenure lasted exactly one season.
One thing about the 80's Redskins I discovered when working on my manuscript, and this has to do with the 1982 Redskins. I was making a case for Mark Moseley's 1982 MVP award. There were three games that Moseley won with kicking longer field goals - Week 1 against Philadelphia where he hit a 48-yard FG at the end of regulation to tie the game and a 34-yarder to win the game in OT; Week 4 against the Eagles again where Moseley kicked 45 and 43-yard field goals in a 13-7 Washington win; and Week 7, where Moseley kicked three field goals, including a 42-yard FG with under 10 seconds to play as Washington beat the Giants 15-14.
Here's where it gets interesting - if Moseley doesn't win all three of these games, if you swap the three Washington wins to losses, and change the two Philadelphia losses to wins and the Giants loss to a win, and adjust the points scored and allowed for the Eagles and Giants to account for the missed field goal in each game, it makes the Cowboys the number one seed with a 7-2 record, the Packers become the second seed with a 5-3-1 record, and you have (I am not making this up) a seven-way tiebreaker for third place in the NFC where the Redskins, Giants, Eagles, Vikings, Falcons, Cardinals and Bucs are all tied at 5-4.
After working out this hypothetical tiebreaker with Ivan Urena, we both concluded the Vikings and Falcons would have been the third and fourth seed, respectively. The Redskins would have been the fifth seed, with the Cardinals, Eagles and Giants being the sixth, seventh and eighth seeds, with Tampa Bay being out of the postseason.
In 1987 they were plain lucky. They were lucky in that the Vikings upset the Saints and 49ers, and in that the Broncos upset the Browns, which helped clear the way for them. They were a good team in beating Chicago and Minnesota, but I don't think there is any way they would have gotten past New Orleans or San Francisco or Cleveland. They were a better team than Denver, should have won by three or four points, but Doug Williams perhaps the greatest quarter any QB has ever had and I don't think the 85 Bears could have stopped him in the second quarter.
1991 was one of those seasons where it was clear from the first week of the season that the Redskins were going to roll thru the season like a tornado, leaving every team in it's wake. Everybody just seemed to have career years at just the right point.
It's hard to say if the Redskins collapse in 1993 was due to Gibbs departure, or if he saw the writing on the wall and knew it was a good time to leave. I always felt sad for Richie Petitbon, a longtime assistant getting his first shot at being a head coach and his tenure lasted exactly one season.
One thing about the 80's Redskins I discovered when working on my manuscript, and this has to do with the 1982 Redskins. I was making a case for Mark Moseley's 1982 MVP award. There were three games that Moseley won with kicking longer field goals - Week 1 against Philadelphia where he hit a 48-yard FG at the end of regulation to tie the game and a 34-yarder to win the game in OT; Week 4 against the Eagles again where Moseley kicked 45 and 43-yard field goals in a 13-7 Washington win; and Week 7, where Moseley kicked three field goals, including a 42-yard FG with under 10 seconds to play as Washington beat the Giants 15-14.
Here's where it gets interesting - if Moseley doesn't win all three of these games, if you swap the three Washington wins to losses, and change the two Philadelphia losses to wins and the Giants loss to a win, and adjust the points scored and allowed for the Eagles and Giants to account for the missed field goal in each game, it makes the Cowboys the number one seed with a 7-2 record, the Packers become the second seed with a 5-3-1 record, and you have (I am not making this up) a seven-way tiebreaker for third place in the NFC where the Redskins, Giants, Eagles, Vikings, Falcons, Cardinals and Bucs are all tied at 5-4.
After working out this hypothetical tiebreaker with Ivan Urena, we both concluded the Vikings and Falcons would have been the third and fourth seed, respectively. The Redskins would have been the fifth seed, with the Cardinals, Eagles and Giants being the sixth, seventh and eighth seeds, with Tampa Bay being out of the postseason.
"Every time you lose, you die a little bit. You die inside. Not all your organs, maybe just your liver." - George Allen
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74_75_78_79_
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Re: Washington Redskins of the late '80's to early '90's
Moseley's MVP was the product of one thing and one thing only...a 9-game abbreviated season! I'd like to think that Wes Chandler & Marcus Allen's 9-game stats alone could have warranted either one an MVP for that season. Montana & Fouts, the two leading QBs, were solid candidates as well. But it simply needed a full-season body-of-work/stats to get any of them that very nod.
I guess you can name another reason for Moseley's '82 honor...the Redskins simply playing like the paper-tigers they played like up until the penultimate week. Had their Theismann/Riggins-led drives ended in touchdowns as they should have, then perhaps Wes gets the nod for '82. Moseley not even in the convo.
The 'heart' of Washington looking like the paper-tiger they looked like, and Moseley winning league MVP, was that very three-week stretch - Wks 5 thru 7. First, they lose convincingly and at home to the only real contender they face, Dallas, 24-10. Then the following week they beat the Cards, 12-7, with those 12 points coming from...you guessed it! And then the following week came that 5-FGs 15-14 win at home vs G-men. Those back-to-back wins sealed the MVP for him!
Then came the nice 27-10 convincer at respectable Bum Phillips-led Saints, and then in their finale rematch with 5-3 Cards, they score four touchdowns this time while, at same time, shutting them out! Closest win from there would be by ten in SBXVII itself (avenging Dallas, 24-10, along the way in the NFCC). Though there are some on this site who actually think that Pittsburgh wins-it-all (for the Thumb) in such a hypothetical, I always have thought - and still think - that Washington still gets the Lombardi had '82 went full. The 5-0 finish in '81 had to serve as a warning with extra-measure being the (7TDs, 3FGs) 2-0 start (vs two '81 playoff teams) before that infamous...57 days! Maybe it was that very layoff that was the reason they didn't play more dominant until they got the 'rust' out in time for Week #8.
I may have mentioned this before on another post, but had GB not actually tied to the win-less Colts (they also finishing 6-3), I wonder who'd get 2nd-seed between they and Dallas?
I guess you can name another reason for Moseley's '82 honor...the Redskins simply playing like the paper-tigers they played like up until the penultimate week. Had their Theismann/Riggins-led drives ended in touchdowns as they should have, then perhaps Wes gets the nod for '82. Moseley not even in the convo.
The 'heart' of Washington looking like the paper-tiger they looked like, and Moseley winning league MVP, was that very three-week stretch - Wks 5 thru 7. First, they lose convincingly and at home to the only real contender they face, Dallas, 24-10. Then the following week they beat the Cards, 12-7, with those 12 points coming from...you guessed it! And then the following week came that 5-FGs 15-14 win at home vs G-men. Those back-to-back wins sealed the MVP for him!
Then came the nice 27-10 convincer at respectable Bum Phillips-led Saints, and then in their finale rematch with 5-3 Cards, they score four touchdowns this time while, at same time, shutting them out! Closest win from there would be by ten in SBXVII itself (avenging Dallas, 24-10, along the way in the NFCC). Though there are some on this site who actually think that Pittsburgh wins-it-all (for the Thumb) in such a hypothetical, I always have thought - and still think - that Washington still gets the Lombardi had '82 went full. The 5-0 finish in '81 had to serve as a warning with extra-measure being the (7TDs, 3FGs) 2-0 start (vs two '81 playoff teams) before that infamous...57 days! Maybe it was that very layoff that was the reason they didn't play more dominant until they got the 'rust' out in time for Week #8.
I may have mentioned this before on another post, but had GB not actually tied to the win-less Colts (they also finishing 6-3), I wonder who'd get 2nd-seed between they and Dallas?
Last edited by 74_75_78_79_ on Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Washington Redskins of the late '80's to early '90's
Rupert Patrick wrote:
It's hard to say if the Redskins collapse in 1993 was due to Gibbs departure, or if he saw the writing on the wall and knew it was a good time to leave.
Probably a bit of a mix of both. THe decline probably wouldn't have been so dramatic had Gibbs stayed but they still probably would have struggled to do any better than 7-9 or 8-8. THe Redskins were definitely getting older by then and Gibbs probably saw that '92 Cowboys squad and knew that Washington would be playing second fiddle to them in the division for many years to come. So I wouldn't be surprised if him seeing the writing on the wall was a big reason for him leaving as well. If Gibbs continued to be coach say through the mid '90's and they had been playing for second or third place to Dallas for four years straight the Redskins fans may have even started calling for Gibbs to be fired.
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74_75_78_79_
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Re: Washington Redskins of the late '80's to early '90's
Yes, that sounds about right. But Gibbs was able to pull off a win vs the Champs-to-be at RFK before season's end. It would be Dallas's final loss of the campaign. Washington could have finished 11-5 from there yet instead stumble into the playoffs by losing their final two. But go out respectably like defending-Champs for the most part by belting Vikings on the road, 24-7, in the 1st-round and then losing by just 7 at top-seed 14-2 San Fran the following week (in fact, it was that close win by SF that, with me, added more assurance that Dallas would take the NFCCG). Norv Turner would go on to have himself a kind-of miniature-Marvin Lewis HC tenure with the franchise. Many owners would have let him go by the end of '98, maybe sooner.lastcat3 wrote:Rupert Patrick wrote:
It's hard to say if the Redskins collapse in 1993 was due to Gibbs departure, or if he saw the writing on the wall and knew it was a good time to leave.
Probably a bit of a mix of both. THe decline probably wouldn't have been so dramatic had Gibbs stayed but they still probably would have struggled to do any better than 7-9 or 8-8. THe Redskins were definitely getting older by then and Gibbs probably saw that '92 Cowboys squad and knew that Washington would be playing second fiddle to them in the division for many years to come. So I wouldn't be surprised if him seeing the writing on the wall was a big reason for him leaving as well. If Gibbs continued to be coach say through the mid '90's and they had been playing for second or third place to Dallas for four years straight the Redskins fans may have even started calling for Gibbs to be fired.
I may have even asked this one before as well, but what was the reason for Pettibone's dismissal despite just one season? His long and accomplished NFL career up to that point, especially with the Redskins!
EDIT (add-on) -
The '89 Redskins...they just barely lose each of their first two games. They win both, and rest of season plays out as is, then they get 2nd-seed at 12-4 with G-men (11-5 in this case) visiting Rams in WCG due to their 31-10 loss to them at LA during regular season (Eagles out at 10-6). If Wash beats G-men but still lose to Birds, then Philly gets 2nd-seed at 11-5 with Wash (also 11-5) as the WC due to what would have been a lesser division record (5-3 to 7-1). Not only that, but Wash hosts the Rams due to what would have been a better conference record, 9-3 to 8-4. If Wash still lose to G-men but hold off Eagles' comeback, then they again top-WC at 11-5 with Philly (10-6) out.
In either event, Wash didn't deserve the playoffs anyway in '89 for they only mustered one win vs a playoff team while getting swept by G-men and losing at home to Denver before pulling off that 5-0 finish, all vs losing teams. That mid-season loss to Dallas at RFK, 13-3, definitely serves as a black-eye in hindsight. As for the only playoff team they beat (Eagles at Philly in Week #10; they also beat 9-7 Saints at NO early on), it was a team Gibbs never had trouble against. His record vs the Eagles in those three-straight Buddy Ryan playoff years ('88-thru-'90), including the '90 WCG win over them, was 5-2. They swept the Birds in '88. On the other hand, the Tuna was 1-5 vs playoff Buddy Ball - that lone win being in their SB year, opening Sunday Night at Meadowlands. Completing the circle-of-irony is that also during those very three seasons, Tuna was 6-0 vs Gibbs!