Most tyrannical NFL coach

conace21
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Re: Most tyrannical NFL coach

Post by conace21 »

Saban wrote:
Jay Z wrote:It's better to be in the championship than not.

But sometimes competition is harder than others. The 1963 Packers were 11-2-1. That was better than the 1961, 1965, and 1967 championship teams. But the Bears were better that year.

For the second half of the 1950s and all of the 1960s, the Western Conference was better than the Eastern Conference. The teams rarely played each other, but the West won the "season series" nearly every year, and most of the championship games. Was finishing second in the West worse than finishing first in the East? Apples and oranges.
All true, except that the Western Conference was weaker than usual during the mid 50's as the eastern champion won the NFL title games by big scores (56 to 10 in 1954, 38 to 14 in 1955, and 47 to 7 in 1956), and the 49ers were weaker after 1954, the Rams were weaker after 1955, and the mighty Detroit Lions fell all the way to last place in 1955.

The Cleveland Browns lost championship games in 1951 and 1953 after only losing one game during both of those seasons. Both losses were close (24 to 17 in 1951 and 17 to 16 in 1953) and the Browns had to play both of those games in the other teams ballpark despite having the best record.

Owners do have the right to fire coaches, but I doubt that Brown or Johnson were the type of guys that would "walk on eggshells" around their bosses. One thing is that Modell wanted Brown to put Ernie Davis in a game even though he had a terminal illness. Brown refused, and this is one of the things that caused friction between them. I think that I would be with Brown on that one.

Brown said, in his book, that he did not see Speedie for 17 years after Mac left for Canada. I don't expect that Brown would look up his former players after they were gone, but he was friendly with some players that stayed in touch like Otto Graham and Mike McCormack. Brown died in 1991,so I doubt that he could have kept Speedie out of the HOF, but I guess that anything is possible.

Speaking of McCormack, Brown said in his book, that Mike said that Brown was the finest coach that he had ever played for and yet he didn't think that the Browns would ever win another championship with Brown as coach and Modell as owner. Brown said that the part of "and Modell as owner was" truncated. So, believe what you want. Vince Costello said that players that trashed Brown after the firing were given pay raises. Could be, but I don't really know any of this stuff for sure.
Neither JJ or PB were the type to walk on eggshells around anyone. People usually walked on eggshells around THEM. They just couldn't accept the fact that neither Jones nor Art would walk on eggshells around their coach
Art supposedly wanted more input in the day to day football operations. I don't know whether he did or not once Collier took over, but whatever he did, it was pretty good. Cleveland had 11 straight winning seasons after firing Paul Brown. Only one championship, but it's debatable whether Paul Brown could have topped that. He had more and more difficulty getting through to his Cleveland players, especially Jim Brown. He seemed to do all right in the late 60's and 70's


From the 1991 article.

“Quite honestly, I think Paul Brown is the reason,” Graham said. “Paul wasn’t the type of guy you crossed. He would never forget it.”

Speedie talked with Brown only once after leaving Cleveland. It was at the East-West Shrine game in 1977.

Said Speedie: “I went up to him and said, ‘Hi Paul, I’m Mac Speedie. He said, ‘Yes, I know. You’re the one who went to Canada.’ Twenty five years later and he still hadn’t forgiven me.”
Saban1
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Re: Most tyrannical NFL coach

Post by Saban1 »

Paul Brown was head coach and general manager of the Cleveland Browns. When Modell fired him, he replaced him with Collier as head coach only. He made a sports writer the general manager, but it was Modell that ran the team after that. He made the trades and things like that, and I am sure he consulted with Collier about them, but he had the last word. He also kept Brown's coaching staff.

Brown really built most of the Browns 60's teams getting players like Hickerson, Wooten, Schafrath, Morrow, Gain, Glass, Costello, Houston, Kanicki, Collins, Ryan, Fiss, Fleming, Brewer, Fichtner, Wiggin, etc. He also recommended that the Browns draft Warfield in 1964. Maybe the Browns would have taken him anyway. Maybe not.

One thing that helped Modell and Collier is that the Eastern Conference got very weak after 1963, with the Giants no longer being a threat and having only one winning team in the east in 1964 other than Cleveland in the Cardinals, and the Cards could not even beat the last place Giants in their two games with them. In 1965, Cleveland was the only team with a winning record in the seven team Eastern Conference.
conace21
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Re: Most tyrannical NFL coach

Post by conace21 »

Saban wrote:Paul Brown was head coach and general manager of the Cleveland Browns. When Modell fired him, he replaced him with Collier as head coach only. He made a sports writer the general manager, but it was Modell that ran the team after that. He made the trades and things like that, and I am sure he consulted with Collier about them, but he had the last word. He also kept Brown's coaching staff.

Brown really built most of the Browns 60's teams getting players like Hickerson, Wooten, Schafrath, Morrow, Gain, Glass, Costello, Houston, Kanicki, Collins, Ryan, Fiss, Fleming, Brewer, Fichtner, Wiggin, etc. He also recommended that the Browns draft Warfield in 1964. Maybe the Browns would have taken him anyway. Maybe not.

One thing that helped Modell and Collier is that the Eastern Conference got very weak after 1963, with the Giants no longer being a threat and having only one winning team in the east in 1964 other than Cleveland in the Cardinals, and the Cards could not even beat the last place Giants in their two games with them. In 1965, Cleveland was the only team with a winning record in the seven team Eastern Conference.
Brown did pick most of the 1964 championship team, though it's doubtful that he could have coached them to a championship like Collier did. The disconnect was too great, especially with Jim Brown.

By 1970, only four players remained from Brown's tenure. Cleveland continued to post winning seasons through 1973. I don't know how much of that was Modell's doing. He may have been content to be involved in the process without having the final say, or if he did have the final say, he listened to his scouts.He justcwas able to collaborate with his coach/GM in a way that PB never permitted.
Ozzie Newsome recalled that in the first draft for the Baltimore Ravens in 1996, Modell wanted to take the troubled but talented running back Lawrence Phillip's. He wanted a splashy player for the first team in Baltimore. Newsome pushed for Jon Ogden, and Modell acquiesced. Obviously, that was many years later.
Saban1
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Re: Most tyrannical NFL coach

Post by Saban1 »

I think that Brown could have led Cleveland to that 1964 title, if Modell was not there. I believe that is what McCormack was alluding to when he said that Brown and Modell together would not win another championship. I am sure that Art never said anything bad about Collier to his players. Cleveland was pretty tough right up to 1961 when Modell arrived. Of course, the Giants were there to keep the Browns down right up to 1964.
BD Sullivan
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Re: Most tyrannical NFL coach

Post by BD Sullivan »

Modell would seethe when critics said that he won with Paul Brown's players and many of their subsequent drafts (outside of 64--Warfield and Leroy Kelly) were disasters, The Warfield trade was obviously a trainwreck, but they needed a young quarterback to groom, given Bill Nelsen's brittle knees. The transition to Mike Phipps in 1972 appeared to pay off since they made the playoffs, but he tanked the following year and the team collapsed in '74.

Phipps' last gasp came in 1976, when he started the opener, but was knocked out by injury. Brian Sipe took over and never looked back, although when the Browns got a 1978 first rounder for Phipps the next year, they ended up drafting Ozzie Newsome.

Collier, who returned to work with the quarterbacks, supposedly said in private that Phipps lacked the work ethic to become a great QB, something that couldn;t be said about Sipe.

Regarding Brown, like most coaches and organization, his view of loyalty was often a one-way street. He impulsively traded Bill Bergey after the LB had signed a future WFL deal, though he got quite a haul from Mike McCormack and the Eagles. However, Bergey might have been helpful when the Bengals came up short in 74 and 76.

The story about Brown and Collier was that Brown originally told him to take the Browns job, which was soon followed by a phone call from Brown's son to Collier begging him not to take it. One of the assistants later said that it was easy for Brown to tell others not to stay, since he still had five years to run on his contract--at $80,000 a year (roughly $600,000 in current money). They didn't have that luxury.

Brown was rumored to be part of an ownership group to buy the Eagles a few months after he was fired, which obviously never came about. He very easily could have gotten a job that year, but since he was demanding total control, owners were likely leery.
Saban1
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Re: Most tyrannical NFL coach

Post by Saban1 »

Part of the separation agreement was that Paul Brown was not being allowed to take a coaching job anywhere or he would lose the 80K per year. I am sure that was Modell's idea. His worst nightmare would have been Brown taking a job with a team in the east like Philadelphia or the Cardinals and then beating Cleveland almost every time they played.

Brown said that he never got the phone call from Collier and then telling him to take the Cleveland job. So, it all comes down to what you want to believe. I never heard anything about Brown's son calling Collier. I guess that a lot of stories were going around at the time. Some may be true, but who knows.
7DnBrnc53
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Re: Most tyrannical NFL coach

Post by 7DnBrnc53 »

If Brown did get the Eagles in 63, I could see him trading Jurgensen just like he was in reality. Jurgensen was a partier, and Brown didn't like that at all.
BD Sullivan
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Re: Most tyrannical NFL coach

Post by BD Sullivan »

Saban wrote:Part of the separation agreement was that Paul Brown was not being allowed to take a coaching job anywhere or he would lose the 80K per year. I am sure that was Modell's idea. His worst nightmare would have been Brown taking a job with a team in the east like Philadelphia or the Cardinals and then beating Cleveland almost every time they played.
Modell's thin skin remained intact into the 80's (and obviously the 90's). That's when he hinted about voiding on the final years of Sam Rutigliano's contract after the latter criticized the Browns' ability to deal with drugs--shortly after the death of Don Rogers.

Perhaps not surprisingly, there were plenty of rumors in Cincy at the end of 1987 that the Bengals would hire Rutigliano as HC, which would have been the third former Browns HC (including Brown himself) that Brown hired. In the end, they stayed with Wyche and ended up going to the Super Bowl the following year.
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