Do we think tackles are official?

[JohnTurney]

And what "IS" official?

Back in the day I spoke to Elias and their guy told be they are not official, and that the scoring was too inconsistent. And I agreed.

I think scoring is better but I am not sure who makes the call. NFLGSIS and NFL.com have posted tackles going back to 1999 I think and while
me personal view is that they are not official, I think most media thinks they are official by being on official websites

So, if someone were to say Leonard led the NFL in tackles in 2018 they'd not only be accurate, but they are taking it from an official source.

The one thing it lacks is no mention in the NFL Record and Factbook. That may be the key.

It also brings up the issue of the QB hits, which became "official" in 2006...they are scored in gamebooks, but are still subjective.

I wonder what NFL thinks, or if they just ignore these questions.

Accurate is one thing. Official in terms of being on official website is another, official in terms of R&FB maybe another

edit: in 2015 the was a SI.com article that said "tackles for loss are official" but "tackles are not"
it's a good article and it addresses lots of key issues on assists, especially.

[JuggernautJ]

I haven't thought so since the days of Jessie Tuggle annually "leading" the league in tackles though this was obviously not the case.

It was then (the early 1990's) that I learned that each team counted "tackles" differently and that the Falcons (allegedly) inflated Tuggle's counts so that the team could have a league leader in something.

So, to me, since then, "tackles" have been neither "official" nor particularly meaningful.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... ggJe00.htm

[JohnTurney]

I haven't thought so since the days of Jessie Tuggle annually "leading" the league in tackles though this was obviously not the case.

It was then (the early 1990's) that I learned that each team counted "tackles" differently and that the Falcons (allegedly) inflated Tuggle's counts so that the team could have a league leader in something.

So, to me, since then, "tackles" have been neither "official" nor particularly meaningful.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... ggJe00.htm

Well, I maybe could have explained better. I was specifically talking about since NFLGSIS and NFL.com became widely spread. Not talking about the coaches tackles of the Tuggle era....but again, I didn't specifically exclude that era.

The difference is there is more of a protocol now and now official sites like NFLGSIS and NFL.com report them...and also tackles for loss (since 1999) I understand are official. And sacks have been official since 1982 and since tackles for loss and sacks come from tackles (they are a subset of tackles) ae official it's curious that tackles are not official.

again, talking recent history, not the old days of Tuggle and others.

I am not talking count Pro Football Reference who mixes the old stuff with the new stuff---I am just curious about the recent stuff.

[Reaser]

Well, Manning set the official record for passing yards in a season despite a lateral to Decker. Which Elias (and the NFL) just decided since it was a 'record' to count rushing yards as passing yards and after 'reviewing' it they said it was the "fairest" decision.

I brought it up at the time ( http://www.profootballresearchers.com/f ... cker#p2484 )

So that's "official" even though it (5,477 passing yards) didn't actually happen and is in the recent time frame you're talking about.

There's what they say is official and there's what really happened. And obviously passing yards are different from tackles but if they can't even get passing yards correct it would obviously be tougher to trust them getting tackles correct -- official or otherwise.

As a general question though, I've always thought tackles weren't official. Though I've never trusted the accuracy (at all) so never thought about it as deeply. Of course, like others I've repeated, "Leonard led the league in tackles last season" (he was good regardless so it's more of a tack-on comment) so there's that, too.

[Rupert Patrick]

Since tackles do not appear in the NFL Record and Fact Book with the rushing and passing and interception statistics, I have to conclude they are not official statistics.

[JohnTurney]

Since tackles do not appear in the NFL Record and Fact Book with the rushing and passing and interception statistics, I have to conclude they are not official statistics.

That makes sense, except tackles for loss are official and they are not in the Record and Fact Book. So I get your logic, but it's confusing since that isn't the definitive thing in terms of stats. TFL are official as per SI.Com who interviewed those who "know".

[BD Sullivan]

Before sacks became official in 1982, Coy Bacon's 26 was supposedly the unofficial record for a season, while there was also Norm Willey's alleged 17 in one game. I think Bacon's "record" has been shot down by actual research, while Willey's number just sounds exaggerated without any effort at research.

[Citizen]

Willey's claim has been debunked repeatedly. He said originally that he got a $10 bonus for every time he hit (not necessarily tackled) Charlie Conerly, and that his bonus that week was $170.

Paul Zimmerman, who was at the game, said Willey's sack total was closer to eight -- still a great game, but hardly the mythical one that's been depicted.

[NWebster]

Before sacks became official in 1982, Coy Bacon's 26 was supposedly the unofficial record for a season, while there was also Norm Willey's alleged 17 in one game. I think Bacon's "record" has been shot down by actual research, while Willey's number just sounds exaggerated without any effort at research.

The 26 was an inflated tram value, he had 22.5, not shabby mind you.

Even support of the Willy claim is frought with problems, Ray Didinger said on NFL Network that the paper the next day supported the claim which is just factually incorrect. Not sure why he'd reference a source that's so easy to fact check and debunk his claim.