How did Minnesota get out of their AFL obligations?

[RyanChristiansen]

Somehow, after the first AFL draft, Max Winter wriggled out of his financial obligations to the AFL, which opened the door for he and Ole Haugsrud to secure an NFL expansion franchise. Has anyone ever read how he managed to do that? All the way through the AFL draft, Winter was playing both sides, telling the AFL he was committed to them while still seeking to acquire the Cardinals or to secure an NFL expansion franchise. And yet, two days after the AFL draft, the new AFL commissioner said, okay, you can withdraw. Did the Texas oil barons, who wanted an expansion franchise in Dallas, help bail out Winter? Any clues would be appreciated.

[rhickok1109]

Somehow, after the first AFL draft, Max Winter wriggled out of his financial obligations to the AFL, which opened the door for he and Ole Haugsrud to secure an NFL expansion franchise. Has anyone ever read how he managed to do that? All the way through the AFL draft, Winter was playing both sides, telling the AFL he was committed to them while still seeking to acquire the Cardinals or to secure an NFL expansion franchise. And yet, two days after the AFL draft, the new AFL commissioner said, okay, you can withdraw. Did the Texas oil barons, who wanted an expansion franchise in Dallas, help bail out Winter? Any clues would be appreciated.

Did he actually have any financial obligations? Had prospective AFL owners actually committed anything to paper? I've never seen anything to indicate that there was any sort of signed agreement.

Winter made his announcement at the first actual meeting of AFL owners, which was held in Minneapolis, ironically. As nominal host of the meeting, Winter was the first speaker and he immediately announced that he had opted for an NFL franchise instead of joining the AFL. The other owners were shocked and surprised but I've never read any account that they tried to hold Winter to any supposed obligation to the new league.

[Bob Gill]

As it happens, just a little while ago I reread Going Long, a book about the AFL by a guy we might call "The Other" Jeff Miller. It includes this quote from Lamar Hunt about Winter's defection:

"And we voted, not without controversy, to let them withdraw and actually refunded their $25,000" -- which, I believe, was the fee each owner put up right at the beginning. Somebody else mentions that in 1961 when the losses were still mounting, Billy Sullivan of the Patriots suggested trying to get that $25,000 back from Winter.

I certainly wouldn't have remembered and of this if I hadn't read it so recently.

[RyanChristiansen]

"And we voted, not without controversy, to let them withdraw and actually refunded their $25,000" -- which, I believe, was the fee each owner put up right at the beginning. Somebody else mentions that in 1961 when the losses were still mounting, Billy Sullivan of the Patriots suggested trying to get that $25,000 back from Winter.

Yes, Winter put a $25,000 down payment on the franchise and he still owed over half a million to the league, but shortly after the AFL draft, he wanted out, but then backpedaled when they threatened to sue. Somehow they let him out of the deal and it sounds like they just didn’t want to bother with fighting for the money.

[rhickok1109]

As it happens, just a little while ago I reread Going Long, a book about the AFL by a guy we might call "The Other" Jeff Miller. It includes this quote from Lamar Hunt about Winter's defection:

"And we voted, not without controversy, to let them withdraw and actually refunded their $25,000" -- which, I believe, was the fee each owner put up right at the beginning. Somebody else mentions that in 1961 when the losses were still mounting, Billy Sullivan of the Patriots suggested trying to get that $25,000 back from Winter.

I certainly wouldn't have remembered and of this if I hadn't read it so recently.

Thanks for straightening me out!

[Citizen]

And in a nice bit of poetic justice, the team that beat the Vikings in their last Super Bowl appearance was the one that took their place in the 11th hour, the Raiders.

[RyanChristiansen]

And in a nice bit of poetic justice, the team that beat the Vikings in their last Super Bowl appearance was the one that took their place in the 11th hour, the Raiders.

Yup, but from a business standpoint, it made much more sense to compete directly with Green Bay and Chicago, for fan interest.

[Mark L. Ford]

And in a nice bit of poetic justice, the team that beat the Vikings in their last Super Bowl appearance was the one that took their place in the 11th hour, the Raiders.

I remember thinking that back in 1977 as well, that it was fitting. It also would have been interesting if the Cowboys had beaten the Browns and Vikings in the 1969 playoffs, and made Super Bowl IV a showdown between Dallas and the team that had moved away from Dallas.

[Ronfitch]

As it happens, just a little while ago I reread Going Long, a book about the AFL by a guy we might call "The Other" Jeff Miller. It includes this quote from Lamar Hunt about Winter's defection:

"And we voted, not without controversy, to let them withdraw and actually refunded their $25,000" -- which, I believe, was the fee each owner put up right at the beginning. Somebody else mentions that in 1961 when the losses were still mounting, Billy Sullivan of the Patriots suggested trying to get that $25,000 back from Winter.

I certainly wouldn't have remembered and of this if I hadn't read it so recently.

Ah, Billy Sullivan. Just re-read Tom Beer's book that I remember reading as a kid ... he shares some very interesting stories from the Billy Sullivan days of the Patriots.

Gotta pick that other Jeff Miller's book again. Such a fun read.

[Saban1]

After Kansas City beat Minnesota in Super Bowl IV, Lamar Hunt was asked if the Vikings reminded him of any AFL teams. Hunt replied, "The Miami Dolphins," who were the worst team in the AFL at that time. I think that Minnesota abandoning the AFL in 1960 might have had something to do with Lamar Hunt's apparent ungracious answer.