How much leeway is given?
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JohnTurney
- Posts: 2554
- Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2014 1:28 pm
How much leeway is given?
I was maybe 51% for Philly/49% Pats... this is an academic question. #13 checked with ref and looks like he was told he was "on" but he even looks a bit behind the right tackle...seems like a lot of leeway on not having 7 on the line
Re: How much leeway is given?
A lot, I'd say. I'd like to hear from people who have officiated because they would know best. But based on playing at lower levels and watching every level of football all these years I'd say it's not exactly a strict thing, or a black and white issue.
Similar to when LT's are lined up way off the LOS. It's generally not something that's called unless and/or until after a warning. If it gets called at all.
For WR's, pointing out to the official is essentially signaling that they're intended to be on the LOS, whether they are or aren't rarely matters after that. If they aren't it's something officials will say after the play since they obviously wouldn't stop the impending snap to tell them to move up. Or if/when there is time before the snap then they'll tell them to move up but if there isn't it's not something I've seen penalized a whole lot.
I wish it was, because I'm a stickler for formations. It's why I was so annoyed by John Harbaugh complaining about the Patriots when the formation gave everything away. Who's eligible, who's not. That his players were confused is on his players and probably more to the point is on him for not preparing them. Get smarter players that know the rules or more importantly, coach em up. Was my thought at the time.
This looks like an illegal formation but it wasn't called so it wasn't, if that makes sense. In my opinion it should be but it has never been a black and white thing whether someone is on the line or not, it's a judgement call. I think it should be black and white but it isn't. The consequences of if it was would probably slow the game down a lot. NFL offenses having to wait for their WR's to be on the LOS. High school officials having to keep telling WR's to scoot up and usually the same one, the entire game. Yeah, still wish it was strict but I imagine that's why it isn't and it's things like that.
Regardless, I don't think this specifically is that big of a deal or that it should be any controversy. But I'd say it will always be something that people -particularly Patriots fans- bring up as something that changed the outcome of the game.
To me, on TV it looked like an illegal formation but it wasn't because it wasn't called. And I don't mean that in the same way that when we see an obvious blown call then someone is 'smart' about it and says it wasn't what everyone else knows to be true "because it wasn't called". I mean it wasn't because that's generally how I've seen being on (or off) the LOS handled in my lifetime.
Similar to when LT's are lined up way off the LOS. It's generally not something that's called unless and/or until after a warning. If it gets called at all.
For WR's, pointing out to the official is essentially signaling that they're intended to be on the LOS, whether they are or aren't rarely matters after that. If they aren't it's something officials will say after the play since they obviously wouldn't stop the impending snap to tell them to move up. Or if/when there is time before the snap then they'll tell them to move up but if there isn't it's not something I've seen penalized a whole lot.
I wish it was, because I'm a stickler for formations. It's why I was so annoyed by John Harbaugh complaining about the Patriots when the formation gave everything away. Who's eligible, who's not. That his players were confused is on his players and probably more to the point is on him for not preparing them. Get smarter players that know the rules or more importantly, coach em up. Was my thought at the time.
This looks like an illegal formation but it wasn't called so it wasn't, if that makes sense. In my opinion it should be but it has never been a black and white thing whether someone is on the line or not, it's a judgement call. I think it should be black and white but it isn't. The consequences of if it was would probably slow the game down a lot. NFL offenses having to wait for their WR's to be on the LOS. High school officials having to keep telling WR's to scoot up and usually the same one, the entire game. Yeah, still wish it was strict but I imagine that's why it isn't and it's things like that.
Regardless, I don't think this specifically is that big of a deal or that it should be any controversy. But I'd say it will always be something that people -particularly Patriots fans- bring up as something that changed the outcome of the game.
To me, on TV it looked like an illegal formation but it wasn't because it wasn't called. And I don't mean that in the same way that when we see an obvious blown call then someone is 'smart' about it and says it wasn't what everyone else knows to be true "because it wasn't called". I mean it wasn't because that's generally how I've seen being on (or off) the LOS handled in my lifetime.
Re: How much leeway is given?
In college they let the OL line up in a V formation, with the 'rules' being that as long as the OG's front foot is in line with the C's back foot, OT's front foot in line with OG's back foot. But then you see illegal formation calls because a WR isn't on the LOS, which doesn't make a lot of sense because if they are parallel to the OT then you'd think they would be considered on the LOS. I don't see nearly as many illegal formation penalties called in the NFL, and half the time the call is wrong because the flag is thrown when the refs don't recognize the formation, not because of an illegality.
The college game is wrought with ineligible players running downfield and blocking on pass plays, which is a staple element of the "RPOs" that is now a part of the NFL. You get a 3 or 5 yard 'window' where you can be downfield, but most times its ignored and the players are blocking defenders while the ball is in the air. I figure this trend will creep into the NFL next year.
One thing I've noticed in the NFL is players going in motion and moving towards the LOS at the snap of the ball, CFL style. I've never seen it called, so perhaps they've relaxed the rules on this (or even changed the rules). Its a minor thing, but I think it helps the WRs get into their routes quicker and helps them push through a jam at the LOS. But I guess its like complaining about traveling in the NBA or balks in the MLB.
The college game is wrought with ineligible players running downfield and blocking on pass plays, which is a staple element of the "RPOs" that is now a part of the NFL. You get a 3 or 5 yard 'window' where you can be downfield, but most times its ignored and the players are blocking defenders while the ball is in the air. I figure this trend will creep into the NFL next year.
One thing I've noticed in the NFL is players going in motion and moving towards the LOS at the snap of the ball, CFL style. I've never seen it called, so perhaps they've relaxed the rules on this (or even changed the rules). Its a minor thing, but I think it helps the WRs get into their routes quicker and helps them push through a jam at the LOS. But I guess its like complaining about traveling in the NBA or balks in the MLB.
Re: How much leeway is given?
well, he was parallel with the o-linemen in at least some capacity. it's not like he was fully behind them.
Re: How much leeway is given?
I've noticed that, as well. Particularly this season. Receivers, or backs coming out of the backfield, start shuffling towards the LOS before the snap regularly now. Then some flat out are going forward/starting to run their route before and at the snap.Bryan wrote:One thing I've noticed in the NFL is players going in motion and moving towards the LOS at the snap of the ball, CFL style. I've never seen it called, so perhaps they've relaxed the rules on this (or even changed the rules). Its a minor thing, but I think it helps the WRs get into their routes quicker and helps them push through a jam at the LOS. But I guess its like complaining about traveling in the NBA or balks in the MLB.