Sam Huff and the 1967 Giants

[Saban1]

Here might be something. Someone wrote on another website forum that right after the 1963 NFL championship game, Sam Huff treated Giants coach Allie Sherman to a nasty tirade that included blaming Allie for losing that game to the Bears (14 to 10). This could have been a big part of why Huff was traded a little while later.

Don't know if that is true. Anyone know?

Someone told me that Red Smith and Arthur Daley had something about that incident (Huff blasting Sherman after the 1963 championship game) in their New York columns, but other than that, not much was made of it at the time, that I know of.

So, maybe it happened. If not, there was another thing from Huff's book. Allie Sherman wanted the Giants defense to play an adjustment to their defense that Sam Huff did not like. Sam would sometimes go back to playing the Giants' regular defense, including the championship game, against Sherman's orders.

Either way, Huff was traded to Washington sometime during the off season, maybe as a result of one or both of those things.

Speaking of the 1963 Giants, I noticed that when linebacker Tom Scott was injured in the championship, he was replaced by a rookie named Al Gursky, who had only played in two games. This made me wonder about the Giants depth that year. Well, as far as the linebackers go, here is what I think happened: I believe that when linebacker Bill Winter was injured during the season, he was replaced by Jerry Hillebrand. Winter was placed on injured reserve and Gursky was activated from the taxi squad. So, if Winter was not injured, then Hillebrand would have replaced Scott in the title game instead of Gursky.

Despite that, the Giants defense played very well in that game, but the game was lost due to interceptions (five, with two that had big run backs that led to TD's in the 14 to 10 loss by New York to Chicago).

I also wondered what would have happened if one of the two defensive tackles (Dick Modzelewski and John LoVetere) went down. I think that the logical choice would have been rookie tackle Lane Howell, even though Howell was apparently being groomed to be an offensive tackle. Lane Howell was traded to Philadelpbhia (I think for guard Pete Case) in 1965 and immediately became their starting left tackle and kept that position for 5 years.

Lane Howell had brothers Mike (Cleveland) and Delles (New Orleans) that also played in the NFL.

If Howell was not available to play defensive tackle in case of an injury, then the only other Giants player in 1963 that I can think of was a rookie named Lou Kirouac, who later (1967) was a starting guard for the Atlanta Falcons.

Fortunately for the 1963 Giants, about the only players that were injured and lost for a good part of the season besides Bill Winter were Alex Webster and Alan Webb. Webster was replaced by Joe Morrison and Webb by Dick Pesonen. Both players performed well and the Giants did not seem to miss a beat.

[Saban1]

Sam Huff blamed Allie Sherman for the Giants collapse in 1964 and beyond for trading away players from their defensive unit, like himself, Dick Modzelewski, Rosie Grier, and Cliff Livingston. Just my opinion, but I think that there was more to it than that. Y.A. Tittle said that we all played one year too long, meaning himself and the older Giants like Andy Robustelli, Alex Webster, Frank Gifford, Jack Stroud, Tom Scott, etc.

I think that there were signs of slippage in 1963 when the Giants made it to another championship game, but not many noticed because players like Tittle, Shofner, Morrison, Lynch, Gifford, Walton, Hill, and Thomas were having such great years. In 1963, Giants quarterbacks were sacked 35 times compared to 17 times in 1962. In 1964, they were sacked 44 times. Alex Webster had a good game in the 1963 opener against the Colts, but was injured in their next game and was just not the same after that.

I think that Robustelli was also past it in 1963 and turned 38 during the season. Andy was going to retire after that season, but was asked to come back for another year by coach Sherman. The Giants had acquired Andy Stynchula in the Huff trade to take Robustelli's place at right defensive end, but was needed to take Modzelewski's place at left defensive tackle.

Tittle had probably his worst ever year in 1964 after a sensational 1963 season. Y.A. threw 36 TD passes in 1963 compared to 10 in 1964, 14 interceptions in 1963 compared to 22 in 1964, had 8.6 yards per attempt in 1963 vs 6.4 YPA in 1964, and a passer rating of 104.8 in 1963 compared to 51.6 in 1964. So, the Giants had their problems on offense in 1964 as well as their defense.

They had their share of injuries in 1964, but were losing earlier in the season before most of the injuries, including a 38 to 7 loss to a mediocre Philadelphia team in the opener. Giants quarterbacks were sacked 6 times in that game, 5 by an Eagles safety on blitzes. When was the last time that had happened to a Giants team prior to 1964?

I always seem to get the names Phil King and King Hill mixed up.

I don't know if anyone noticed, but I had the name Hill instead of King as one of the 1963 Giants players that had such great years that not many people noticed any signs of slippage during the 1963 season.

Phil King played very well in both 1962 and 1963 averaging 4.3 yards per rushing attempt in 1962 for 460 yards and 3.8 YPA for 613 yards in 1963. Phil King was traded to Pittsburgh in 1964.

[Shipley]

Dick Modzelewski was lucky to be traded from the Giants to the Browns after the 1963 season. He picked up a second championship ring with the Browns in 1964, and made it back to the championship game with the Browns in 1965, but lost to the Packers. There's a great picture of him walking off the field in that game covered with mud.

[Saban1]

Dick Modzelewski was lucky to be traded from the Giants to the Browns after the 1963 season. He picked up a second championship ring with the Browns in 1964, and made it back to the championship game with the Browns in 1965, but lost to the Packers. There's a great picture of him walking off the field in that game covered with mud.

I think that most of the Browns starters looked like that (covered with mud), especially the linemen.

The worst game I have ever seen like that was a game between the Giants and Cardinals in 1964. It was hard to tell which team the players were on due to the muddy uniforms. The game ended up in a 10-10 tie.

[Saban1]

I mentioned that Al Gursky took Tom Scott's place in the 1963 championship game even though he was a rookie and had only played in two games. Bookie Bolin was also replaced in that game by Ken Byers, also a rookie, but had started in 2 or 3 games earlier in the season. Bolin, like Scott, had been injured in that game.

Some more possible replacements in case of injuries that year were Bob Taylor at defensive end and Mickey Walker at center. Walker and Taylor both played almost strictly on special teams and did well there, but were the only backups at those positions in 1963 for the Giants, as far as I know. In 1964, Andy Robustelli was to retire as a defensive end, but was talked into playing another year by Allie Sherman, even though he was to turn 39 during the 1964 season. Taylor returned in 1964 also, but only to play on the special teams again.

Tight end Joe Walton retired after the 1963 season, which was probably the reason for the Modzelewski trade for reserve tight end Bob Crespino. Then there was the Huff trade for defensive lineman Andy Stynchula, who was to replace Andy Robustelli at defensive end. When Robustelli decided to come back, Stynchula was used to replace Modzelewski at left defensive tackle in 1964. Halfback Dick James was also acquired in the Huff trade and was used to replace Phil King, who was traded to Pittsburgh. A 1964 rookie named Lou Slaby was used in Huff's place at middle linebacker.

[SixtiesFan]

I mentioned that Al Gursky took Tom Scott's place in the 1963 championship game even though he was a rookie and had only played in two games. Bookie Bolin was also replaced in that game by Ken Byers, also a rookie, but had started in 2 or 3 games earlier in the season. Bolin, like Scott, had been injured in that game.

Some more possible replacements in case of injuries that year were Bob Taylor at defensive end and Mickey Walker at center. Walker and Taylor both played almost strictly on special teams and did well there, but were the only backups at those positions in 1963 for the Giants, as far as I know. In 1964, Andy Robustelli was to retire as a defensive end, but was talked into playing another year by Allie Sherman, even though he was to turn 39 during the 1964 season. Taylor returned in 1964 also, but only to play on the special teams again.

Tight end Joe Walton retired after the 1963 season, which was probably the reason for the Modzelewski trade for reserve tight end Bob Crespino. Then there was the Huff trade for defensive lineman Andy Stynchula, who was to replace Andy Robustelli at defensive end. When Robustelli decided to come back, Stynchula was used to replace Modzelewski at left defensive tackle in 1964. Halfback Dick James was also acquired in the Huff trade and was used to replace Phil King, who was traded to Pittsburgh. A 1964 rookie named Lou Slaby was used in Huff's place at middle linebacker.

I recall a 1965 Sport Magazine piece rating the NFL players. It said Sam Huff's stock had gone up--Huff helped the Redskins and he was missed in New York.

[Saban1]

I mentioned that Al Gursky took Tom Scott's place in the 1963 championship game even though he was a rookie and had only played in two games. Bookie Bolin was also replaced in that game by Ken Byers, also a rookie, but had started in 2 or 3 games earlier in the season. Bolin, like Scott, had been injured in that game.

Some more possible replacements in case of injuries that year were Bob Taylor at defensive end and Mickey Walker at center. Walker and Taylor both played almost strictly on special teams and did well there, but were the only backups at those positions in 1963 for the Giants, as far as I know. In 1964, Andy Robustelli was to retire as a defensive end, but was talked into playing another year by Allie Sherman, even though he was to turn 39 during the 1964 season. Taylor returned in 1964 also, but only to play on the special teams again.

Tight end Joe Walton retired after the 1963 season, which was probably the reason for the Modzelewski trade for reserve tight end Bob Crespino. Then there was the Huff trade for defensive lineman Andy Stynchula, who was to replace Andy Robustelli at defensive end. When Robustelli decided to come back, Stynchula was used to replace Modzelewski at left defensive tackle in 1964. Halfback Dick James was also acquired in the Huff trade and was used to replace Phil King, who was traded to Pittsburgh. A 1964 rookie named Lou Slaby was used in Huff's place at middle linebacker.

I recall a 1965 Sport Magazine piece rating the NFL players. It said Sam Huff's stock had gone up--Huff helped the Redskins and he was missed in New York.

I think that is true. In 1964, the Giants also missed Modzelewski and probably King as well. It was a combination of things. Players were getting older and Y.A. Tittle just wasn't the same Y.A. anymore, after having his greatest year in 1963.