HoF semifinalist list released

[rewing84]

Not high on barber why is that and bach's what do you have to nitpick on walls its pathetic

[bachslunch]

Not high on barber why is that and bach's what do you have to nitpick on walls its pathetic

Would you please explain why my criticism of Walls is “pathetic?” Is it wrong or something? He certainly doesn’t overwhelm with honors at 3/4/none. And everything I’ve seen regarding Walls’s play is that he wasn’t overwhelmingly good in coverage and got thrown on a lot, which is why he got a fair number of lifetime INTs. Have you heard differently?

[JohnTurney]

and Zach Thomas (ditto) left off.

Zach Thomas' lack of HOF consideration is mind boggling to me.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe the tackles for loss stat was in full use during Thomas' career. Not all tackles are created equal, and while Thomas complied a large number, many of those were in the four plus yards downfield variety. An excellent player, but not dominant the way other inside linebackers in the HOF have been.

Tackles, always a sticky subject, but yes, there were "stuffs" as compiled by Stats, LLC, but Nick Webster has added passing stuffs to that as well
he made a lot of his tackles behind the LOS, so that cannot be a fault...

http://nflfootballjournal.blogspot.com/ ... asons.html

[L.C. Greenwood]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe the tackles for loss stat was in full use during Thomas' career. Not all tackles are created equal, and while Thomas complied a large number, many of those were in the four plus yards downfield variety. An excellent player, but not dominant the way other inside linebackers in the HOF have been.[/quote]


Tackles, always a sticky subject, but yes, there were "stuffs" as compiled by Stats, LLC, but Nick Webster has added passing stuffs to that as well
he made a lot of his tackles behind the LOS, so that cannot be a fault...

http://nflfootballjournal.blogspot.com/ ... asons.html[/quote]


I just don't know about the veracity of those numbers, and like PFF, who exactly is breaking down the info. Assuming the number is in the ballpark, I'd still like to know how many of those tackles were four or more yards downfield. The other issue I have with Thomas would be how Jason Taylor was at another level on those Dolphins teams. I'm struggling to come up with signature moments, and felt Randy Gradischar was the superior player. When you have the intense competition for the HOF, I don't know if Thomas will ever get in.

[74_75_78_79_]

I forgot about Walls being apart of that 1990 G-men title. He and Jimmy Johnson being nominees together...they got into a shouting match with each other in ’89. Walls was laughing with Cardinal players following a loss to them and Jimmy kicked him off the team. What a group of coaches Walls played for! Not counting JJ you got Eddie Robinson, Tom Landry, Bill Parcells, and Bill Belichick! I’m no HOF yay-or-nay expert, but Walls simply doesn’t ring me with at all for Canton; especially with way too many more deserving. A real fine career, I would say a rock-solid HOVG candidate.

[rewing84]

actually bachs to answer your question ive had time to think about everson walls and you are correct my apologies who would you replace walls with

[bachslunch]

actually bachs to answer your question ive had time to think about everson walls and you are correct my apologies who would you replace walls with

Thanks — apology accepted and no hard feelings.

Happy to answer your question: any of Mike Kenn, Sterling Sharpe, Darren Woodson, or Zach Thomas would be a good replacement as far as I’m concerned.

[rewing84]

Im More sold on thomas since he has more time on the ballot than kenn or sharpe

[Bryan]

He was the beneificiary of the 2 ILBer all-Pro format by the AP from 1984 or so through last year.

The times he was First-team All-Pro he was always the 2nd leading vote-getter. In the mid-1980s the Ap added a 2nd ILBer because 24-25 of the teams were 3-4 teams. By the time Thomas was in NFL that was reversed and most were 4-3 teams, but AP never adjusted and then in mid-2000s teams started going back to some 3-4 schemes/

Anyway, he never made the PFWA team which had one ILB...just food for thought

I think Thomas was clearly 3rd best behind Lewis and Urlacher when he played, but I think being 3rd best in that group is still noteworthy. The Dolphins' defense with Thomas was usually among the league's best. This is probably a bad analogy, but I liken Thomas to Tommy Nobis...stuck behind Butkus and Nitschke but still a great player in his own right. I don't know if Thomas was "better" than Nobis, but he was a bit more durable.

[L.C. Greenwood]

He was the beneificiary of the 2 ILBer all-Pro format by the AP from 1984 or so through last year.

The times he was First-team All-Pro he was always the 2nd leading vote-getter. In the mid-1980s the Ap added a 2nd ILBer because 24-25 of the teams were 3-4 teams. By the time Thomas was in NFL that was reversed and most were 4-3 teams, but AP never adjusted and then in mid-2000s teams started going back to some 3-4 schemes/

Anyway, he never made the PFWA team which had one ILB...just food for thought

I think Thomas was clearly 3rd best behind Lewis and Urlacher when he played, but I think being 3rd best in that group is still noteworthy. The Dolphins' defense with Thomas was usually among the league's best. This is probably a bad analogy, but I liken Thomas to Tommy Nobis...stuck behind Butkus and Nitschke but still a great player in his own right. I don't know if Thomas was "better" than Nobis, but he was a bit more durable.

I think it's going to be a tough sell, since Urlacher and Lewis were just at another level. Thomas made up for his lack of athleticism with instincts, and determination, but he didn't have the kind of impact we see with other HOF linebackers. The lack of signature moments bother me, and Thomas didn't help himself in the postseason. I think Jason Taylor's career sack total as a DE is far more impressive than Thomas' career tackle total. Randy Gradischar had the dominant 1977 season, when he was Defensive Player of the Year, and help lead the Orange Crush to the AFC title for the first time. When you combine the stacked list of HOF candidates, and the eye test problem, it may be up to the Veteran's Committee down the line. Thomas always seemed closer to London Fletcher than Urlacher and Lewis.

I would put Sam Mills in the HOF over Zach Thomas.