Defend your 2017 HOVG ballot!

[Bryan]

Here is who I voted for:

Houston Antwine
Matt Blair
Bobby Boyd
Deron Cherry
Todd Christensen
Dave Grayson
Warren Lahr
Tony Latone
Bob Skoronski
Bill Stanfill


Antwine - a coworker of mine, much older and African-American, played football with Antwine at SIU. For whatever reason, SIU had a lot of black athletes in the early 60's...my coworker's sister dated Walt Frazier (he didn't care for Frazier). Anyways, my coworker was very impressed with Antwine, and Antwine's pro career has seemingly gone under-the-radar as his best years were in the AFL early days.

Blair - another guy with bad timing. Caught the tail end of the great Vikings teams, and was probably stuck on the bench a year too long. I remember Blair being a good all-around OLB who could also block kicks (seemed like every Viking could block kicks).

Boyd - a favorite of mine...tough tackler and one of the best INT rates in history. One of the best zone CBs ever...just don't ask him to cover Gary Collins man-to-man (or Don Maynard, really).

Cherry - one of the top safeties of the 80's. I liked him over Browner because it seemed like Cherry was better in coverage whereas Browner was kind of a product of terrific surrounding talent. My assessment could be completely off-the-mark, though.

Todd Christensen - perhaps the top pass target of the early to mid 80's.

Dave Grayson - I liked how Grayson was effective at different DB positions. Arguably the best DB in AFL history.

Warren Lahr - no real reason to include him at the expense of Browner, but it seems like Lahr and those Browns defenses have been underrated, so I am giving him his due. Lahr's career had a late start, and he remained productive well into his mid-30's.

Tony Latone - seemed to have a very high TD total for his era. Figured if he doesn't get in this year, he might not ever reappear on the ballot.

Bob Skoronski - Very durable player with not much in the way of honors. Probably a bad choice by me, but I think Skoronski was a very good player.

Bill Stanfill - he checks all of my illogical boxes....played on an underrated defense, a better DE is probably on the ballot (Faison), but I went with Stanfill anyway. I think he was a great all-around DE who was a crucial part to those Dolphins teams before injuries kind of prematurely ended his career.

Who didn't make the cut...

Browner - I thought he was kind of overrated when he played, but he was incredibly productive for a SS and has all the honors. Probably a snub on my part.

George Christensen - I didn't see enough on his resume, but perhaps someone can educate me.

Dwight Clark - interesting choice, I think he was a guy you could win with, but I also think there are better HOVG WR candidates out there.

Earl Faison - another snub on my part. Stanfill played in a tougher era on a team that accomplished more. Perhaps not fair to Faison. Turney can weigh in.

Joe Fortunato - kind of a weird career, with the majority of his honors coming as his career wound down. Definitely a worthy candidate...I'll probably vote for him next year.

Ken Gray - I was looking at his PFR comps...RC Thieleman, Ed Budde....just doesn't do it for me. Gets 1st team AP honors in 1969, jettisoned to Houston in 1970. Weird.

Cornell Green - If Browner is off the ballot, I can't put Green on it, although his resume is more impressive than I first thought.

Ace Gutowsky - similar to George Christensen, I just didn't see enough on his resume.

Stanley Morgan - had some nice deep threat years when the Patriots were underachieving, and his 1986 season was remarkable, but the rest of his career was kind of 'meh'.

Dan Reeves - probably the perfect HOVG resume, but I never thought Reeves was all that great of a coach. He was competent enough to have a long HC career, but no aspect of his coaching really stood out to me.

[ChrisBabcock]

Houston Antwine
Matt Blair
Bobby Boyd
Deron Cherry
Todd Christensen
Dave Grayson
Warren Lahr
Tony Latone
Bob Skoronski
Bill Stanfill

I found out who the final 20 were a few months ago and I narrowed it down to my 10 votes already. I am at work right now so I can't double check but I think we overlap in 7 of our choices. (1,2,3,4,5,6,8)

[JohnTurney]

Antwine - a coworker of mine, much older and African-American, played football with Antwine at SIU. For whatever reason, SIU had a lot of black athletes in the early 60's...my coworker's sister dated Walt Frazier (he didn't care for Frazier). Anyways, my coworker was very impressed with Antwine, and Antwine's pro career has seemingly gone under-the-radar as his best years were in the AFL early days.
Excellent player who is a true HOVG

Blair - another guy with bad timing. Caught the tail end of the great Vikings teams, and was probably stuck on the bench a year too long. I remember Blair being a good all-around OLB who could also block kicks (seemed like every Viking could block kicks).
Caught in transition, too. From good all around LBers (think Brazile, Robertson, Vliiapiano, Hanburger, Ham, Russell, etc) to the rush backer era when you needed double-digit sacks to get attention,=

Boyd - a favorite of mine...tough tackler and one of the best INT rates in history. One of the best zone CBs ever...just don't ask him to cover Gary Collins man-to-man (or Don Maynard, really).
zone player, ball hawk, kind of a Ronde Barber of his era, in a way

Cherry - one of the top safeties of the 80's. I liked him over Browner because it seemed like Cherry was better in coverage whereas Browner was kind of a product of terrific surrounding talent. My assessment could be completely off-the-mark, though.
Agree a hair better than Browner. A smart player, ball hawk, stories of Browner never learning a defense, given hand signals before plays to remind him of what to do. Cherry the better pick

Todd Christensen - perhaps the top pass target of the early to mid 80's.
Yeah, a good one. HOVG type... like Clark in some ways, high, short peak.

Dave Grayson - I liked how Grayson was effective at different DB positions. Arguably the best DB in AFL history.
A guy who stands out on film due to his speed. he and Bobby Bell just look faster than everyone else

Warren Lahr - no real reason to include him at the expense of Browner, but it seems like Lahr and those Browns defenses have been underrated, so I am giving him his due. Lahr's career had a late start, and he remained productive well into his mid-30's.


Tony Latone - seemed to have a very high TD total for his era. Figured if he doesn't get in this year, he might not ever reappear on the ballot.

Bob Skoronski - Very durable player with not much in the way of honors. Probably a bad choice by me, but I think Skoronski was a very good player.

Bill Stanfill - he checks all of my illogical boxes....played on an underrated defense, a better DE is probably on the ballot (Faison), but I went with Stanfill anyway. I think he was a great all-around DE who was a crucial part to those Dolphins teams before injuries kind of prematurely ended his career.
One of several short-career excellent players. Faison, Sestak, Rich Jackson, etc.

Who didn't make the cut...

Browner - I thought he was kind of overrated when he played, but he was incredibly productive for a SS and has all the honors. Probably a snub on my part.

George Christensen - I didn't see enough on his resume, but perhaps someone can educate me.

Dwight Clark - interesting choice, I think he was a guy you could win with, but I also think there are better HOVG WR candidates out there.

Earl Faison - another snub on my part. Stanfill played in a tougher era on a team that accomplished more. Perhaps not fair to Faison. Turney can weigh in.
I vote for him every year, but that's me. Took special care to strudy his film recently. Played some 3-4 OLBer as did the RDE. They's stand up or play down depemnding on the call
Joe Fortunato - kind of a weird career, with the majority of his honors coming as his career wound down. Definitely a worthy candidate...I'll probably vote for him next year.
Like Blair and players of late-70s to early 1980s a guy in transition era. He and Forester and Currie and Haziltine all shorted in some ways because hte All-Pro voters would vote for 3 MLBers

Ken Gray - I was looking at his PFR comps...RC Thieleman, Ed Budde....just doesn't do it for me. Gets 1st team AP honors in 1969, jettisoned to Houston in 1970. Weird.

Cornell Green - If Browner is off the ballot, I can't put Green on it, although his resume is more impressive than I first thought.

Ace Gutowsky - similar to George Christensen, I just didn't see enough on his resume.

Stanley Morgan - had some nice deep threat years when the Patriots were underachieving, and his 1986 season was remarkable, but the rest of his career was kind of 'meh'.

Dan Reeves - probably the perfect HOVG resume, but I never thought Reeves was all that great of a coach. He was competent enough to have a long HC career, but no aspect of his coaching really stood out to me.

[TanksAndSpartans]

Here is his PFR page: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/p ... toAc20.htm

His name was almost etched forever with some pretty elite company when it comes to running backs:

EMMITT SMITH, Dallas Cowboys
WALTER PAYTON, Chicago Bears
JIM BROWN, Cleveland Browns
JOE PERRY, San Francisco 49ers
STEVE VAN BUREN, Philadelphia Eagles
CLARKE HINKLE, Green Bay Packers
ACE GUTOWSKY, Detroit Lions
CLIFF BATTLES, Washington Redskin

Gutowsky was reported to have broken Battles all-time rushing yardage mark, but statistical revisions worked against him on both sides as Battles number was revised a bit upwards and his number was revised a bit downward, so he isn’t recognized on this list.

As the Spartans transitioned to the Lions in the 30s, they had a pretty good team and an excellent ground game. They knocked on the door for a title a few times and eventually won one in ’35.

One last thing to remember about Gutowsky is that he did play in the two-way era and I’ve read interviews with his contemporaries where he is mentioned to be a hard hitter and solid overall defender.

[ChrisBabcock]

I finally nailed down my 10. I had 7 definites, then 5 more that I had to pick 3 out of. Fortunato and Morgan being the odd ones out.

Houston Antwine
Matt Blair
Bobby Boyd
Joey Browner
Deron Cherry
Todd Christensen
Dave Grayson
Cornell Green
Tony Latone
Bill Stanfill

Some thoughts...
Blair: 20 career fumble recoveries is impressive.
Cherry/Browner: Possibly the 3rd and 4th best safeties of the 1980s. Shell, Fencik and Cromwell could be in that conversation
Boyd: Someone else said something similar on this forum awhile back... Years ago I "discovered" him while poring over career INT totals. Seems like the perfect HOVG type. 6 or more interceptions in 7 of his 9 seasons.
Grayson/Green: ok so my ballot is DB heavy. I nominated Grayson & Boyd last year & tried to this year but someone beat me to them. The 60s might be my favorite football decade so I'm partial.
Latone: I've read somewhere that he (unofficially) had the most rushing yards of anyone in the 1920s. He gets nominated every year. Let's get this guy in the HOVG already!
Stanfill: Someone who I initially thought that I wouldn't vote for when I first saw the ballot but after digging deeper I see he was quite the pass rusher for those early 70s Dolphins
Warren Lahr: I might be guilty of not knowing enough about him. Just one Pro Bowl, a few first team all-pros and a few second team all-pros... all in a 12 team league. The honors seem a little thin. Impressive INT totals even for his era.
Stanley Morgan: Someone at first I thought that I would be voting for, but ended up not. I definitely think he's HOVG worthy but he was a bit of a play forever and compile stats kind of guy. I had to trim my ballot to 10 and he didn't make my cut.