Buffalo vs. Miami in the 1970s

BD Sullivan
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Re: Buffalo vs. Miami in the 1970s

Post by BD Sullivan »

Bryan wrote:
Rupert Patrick wrote:1978 - With the AFC East title sewed up, it came out before the final regular season game that HC Chuck Fairbanks had already accepted the job at Colorado, and was suspended by the owner. Fairbanks returned for the playoff game against Houston, but the team never recovered from the turmoil, and was upset at home.
It seemed like Billy Sullivan/the Patriots' handled that situation the worst possible way. To me, the Patriots had 3 options:

1) Keep calm and say nothing. Let Fairbanks coach through the playoffs.
2) Immediately suspend Fairbanks for the rest of the season.
3) Top Colorado's offer to Fairbanks and sign him to a new contract before the playoffs start (it's your team!).

Not sure what the point was in suspending Fairbanks for the somewhat meaningless final regular season game, only to then reinstate him for the important playoff game.
There was no way he was going to match the Colorado offer, whether he wanted to or not.

Four years after this, the Giants had to deal with Ray Perkins bailing on them to take over for Bear Bryant at Alabama while still coaching. They were still in contention for a playoff berth in the expanded strike-year system after having won three in a row to even their mark at 3-3. They then lost by a point at Washington and then by a field goal at St. Louis in their next two games to end any postseason hopes, so it doesn't appear that they were as shell-shocked as the Pats. FWIW, I do remember some NY-based columnists describing Perkins as a "deserter" in the aftermath.
L.C. Greenwood
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Re: Buffalo vs. Miami in the 1970s

Post by L.C. Greenwood »

sheajets wrote:As a big hockey fan, this is actually not the most astonishing thing I've seen. The Pittsburgh Penguins at one point had a 42 game winless streak at The Spectrum

The Boston Bruins, between 1946 and 1987, lost 18 consecutive playoff series against the Montreal Canadiens. And while the Canadiens were the class of the league, the Bruins were not exactly the Washington Generals.
That NHL losing streak at Philadelphia was unusual, with only three ties mixed in there. It was a contrast of how good the Flyers were as a model expansion franchise, while the Penguins struggled with inadequate ownership, and lost a potential young All-Star player to a car accident in the early 70s. It took the Flyers only several seasons to win back to back Cups, and they had the original, strong owner until just a couple of years ago. By contrast, the Pens had management which forget to file withholding taxes, and usually put a mediocre product on the ice until the late 80s.
7DnBrnc53
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Re: Buffalo vs. Miami in the 1970s

Post by 7DnBrnc53 »

L.C. Greenwood wrote:
sheajets wrote:As a big hockey fan, this is actually not the most astonishing thing I've seen. The Pittsburgh Penguins at one point had a 42 game winless streak at The Spectrum

The Boston Bruins, between 1946 and 1987, lost 18 consecutive playoff series against the Montreal Canadiens. And while the Canadiens were the class of the league, the Bruins were not exactly the Washington Generals.
That NHL losing streak at Philadelphia was unusual, with only three ties mixed in there. It was a contrast of how good the Flyers were as a model expansion franchise, while the Penguins struggled with inadequate ownership, and lost a potential young All-Star player to a car accident in the early 70s. It took the Flyers only several seasons to win back to back Cups, and they had the original, strong owner until just a couple of years ago. By contrast, the Pens had management which forget to file withholding taxes, and usually put a mediocre product on the ice until the late 80s.
Not only did they put a mediocre product on the ice, they were on the verge of contraction (or moving to Hamilton) if they didn't get Lemieux.
1976 - After beating Pittsburgh and Oakland, the Pats finished 11-3, but lost a division tiebreaker to Baltimore and had to travel to Oakland for the Divisional round, where a controversial play cost them in a last second Oakland victory.
The 1976 Patriots would be a good candidate for a Missing Rings episode if they ever bring that back.
Evan
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Re: Buffalo vs. Miami in the 1970s

Post by Evan »

The 1976 Patriots would be a good candidate for a Missing Rings episode if they ever bring that back.
I agree, I wish there were dozens more of the Missing Rings episodes. I think the premise of those was that they only did them for franchises (Buffalo, Minnesota, Cincinnati, San Diego) that had yet to win a Super Bowl, thus disqualifying the Patriots. However, not to hijack the thread, but here is a wishlist of the three interviewees for hypothetical Missing Rings episodes, one for each year of the 1970s that I think many of us would like to see :

NOTE: I know that several of the proposed interviewees below are no longer with us, but please indulge a little writer's privilege in this Fantasy Series of Missing Rings episodes.

1970 Lions - Joe Schmidt, Mel Farr, Lem Barney (I've never heard any of them talk, so would be curious just to hear what they sound like. This was the best Lions team for quite a while, so I wonder if they had a sense that they would be around for a while and take over that division, and how they coped with the subsequent years where they didn't really contend)

1971 49ers - John Brodie, Gene Washington, Jimmy Johnson (Brodie and Washington I both enjoy listening to, never heard Johnson but I think he would represent the defense well. I'd like to hear perspectives on the 49ers teams of that early 70s era before the Rams emerged)

1972 Redskins - George Allen, Billy Kilmer, Pat Fischer (Imagine how great an interview Allen would have been in this format. I see his quotes as kind of a combination of Joe Kapp and Sam Wyche -- ballsy, folksy and corny all at the same time. Kilmer symbolized that team, he would HAVE to be one of the three. Fischer seems like he might give a good ole' crusty Mike Curtis-type of interview.)

1973 Rams - Chuck Knox, Lawrence McCutcheon, Jack Youngblood (TONS of candidates from this team. I think Knox would be good since this was his first year, McCutcheon said in Danyluk's "Super 70s" book that this team or the 1977 team were the best Rams squads of his career, and he seemed pretty forthcoming with opinions in Danyluk's interview, I've found Youngblood to be a great interview. Hard to leave off Hadl, H.Jackson, Tom Mack, Jack Reynolds, Isiah Robertson and of course Merlin Olsen and Fred Dryer who we know are great on camera.)

1974 Raiders - John Madden, Gene Upshaw, Jack Tatum / George Atkinson interviewed together (Could have gone with lots of guys on this team too. Even with all his overexposure, Madden is a must for any Raider documentary. Upshaw, Tatum and Atkinson both were pure RAIDERS and I think would have some colorful stories. I would love to see Tatum and Atkinson interviewed together to get them going with great stories. As for others, of course Villapiano is always great to listen to. I'm curious if Cliff Branch would be interesting here, this was his breakout year in a big way, I've just never heard him interviewed so I don't know how engaging he would be. Biletnikoff seems kind of quiet and introverted in the interviews I've seen, so he didn't make my top three).

NOTE: I think the Raiders were the main story of 1974 and were the confident pick for the Super Bowl title going into the playoffs, which made their Missing Ring all the more dramatic. But for that year, I could also easily go with 1974 Cardinals - Coryell, Hart, Dobler, if I had to pick a defender I guess Wehrli, who I've never heard speak, but I'm okay without a defender for this one as the Cards offense with all their long TDs was by far the main story of that team.

1975 Vikings - Fran Tarkenton, Chuck Foreman, Paul Krause - (The Missing Rings of the 1969 Vikings didn't really cover the mid-70s Vikes, who I must disclose are my favorite team of an era, so personally I would love to see this documentary with these three guys. Tarkenton has lots to say on everything and was the MVP that year so I think must be included, plus obviously he suffered one of the worst days of any athlete on Dec. 28, 1975. Foreman was a monster that year. I've met him and think a good interviewer could get some intriguing clips from him. Krause is a good interview and had a great view of the Hail Mary and aftermath. I thought of Alan Page but he is often not a great quote and usually downplays the significance of football, which I completely understand given what else he has accomplished. He could give a good perspective on the entire Bud Grant era however. Jim Marshall of course would be great but he was in the 1969 Missing Rings so I'd ask others first.

1976 Patriots - Steve Grogan, Russ Francis, Ray Hamilton (typically a coach gets picked, but I never got the sense that Fairbanks was a particularly compelling interview, but feel free to correct that impression if some of you know otherwise. I've talked to Francis and found him to be a great interview candidate, Grogan was a huge story that season, and Hamilton could represent the defense and of course discuss the key play in the playoffs)

1977 Broncos - Red Miller, Craig Morton, Lyle Alzado (The emergence of Miller and Morton from relative obscurity to Coach of the Year and AFC Player of the Year would be terrific to document. Alzado was wonderfully over the top and would give a Todd Christenson-like dramatic sense to all of his quotes. Tom Jackson loved to talk all the time, so this would be great for him too)

1978 Oilers - Bum Phillips, Dan Pastorini, Curley Culp (Bum might be the best interview in the history of the series and make the film editor's job impossible to keep the program within an hour. I haven't heard Pastorini interviewed, but his personal history of getting booed and beaten up, through the flak jacket drama, would make for good fodder. I thought Curley Culp was pretty interesting in his HOF induction, would like to see him interviewed in short format here. The obvious omission is Earl, and I see a good case for him, but he just had that super-thick drawl - remember the Skoal commercials - that made him a less than compelling interview candidate.

1979 Buccaneers - John McKay, Doug Williams, Lee Roy Selmon (McKay probably has the best collection of one-liners in NFL history. He would be perfect for this. Williams was compelling for so many reasons, Selmon I never heard speak but as an original Buc I think he needs to offer the valuable perspective of last-to-first.)

Lots of other great candidates for 1970 Missing Rings, certainly squads from the Colts, Cardinals, Bengals and many others would be great to hear too. I thought about proposing a blended 1976 Colts/Patriots episode where reps from the two teams would be interviewed together (Bert Jones and Steve Grogan, Lydell Mitchell and Russ Francis, Joe Ehrmann and Ray Hamilton) to see what kind of stories and perspectives they could give about how 1976 season played out.

Your thoughts?
BD Sullivan
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Re: Buffalo vs. Miami in the 1970s

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Evan wrote:1970 Lions - Joe Schmidt, Mel Farr, Lem Barney (I've never heard any of them talk, so would be curious just to hear what they sound like. This was the best Lions team for quite a while, so I wonder if they had a sense that they would be around for a while and take over that division, and how they coped with the subsequent years where they didn't really contend)
Here's a radio interview from two years ago with Schmidt. He starts talking about Mel Farr, who had just died, at around the 2:45 mark and that leads into the 1970 season for a few minutes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KkJvF85EK4
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Retro Rider
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Re: Buffalo vs. Miami in the 1970s

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Evan wrote:
I agree, I wish there were dozens more of the Missing Rings episodes. I think the premise of those was that they only did them for franchises (Buffalo, Minnesota, Cincinnati, San Diego) that had yet to win a Super Bowl, thus disqualifying the Patriots. However, not to hijack the thread, but here is a wishlist of the three interviewees for hypothetical Missing Rings episodes, one for each year of the 1970s that I think many of us would like to see :

NOTE: I know that several of the proposed interviewees below are no longer with us, but please indulge a little writer's privilege in this Fantasy Series of Missing Rings episodes.

1972 Redskins - George Allen, Billy Kilmer, Pat Fischer (Imagine how great an interview Allen would have been in this format. I see his quotes as kind of a combination of Joe Kapp and Sam Wyche -- ballsy, folksy and corny all at the same time. Kilmer symbolized that team, he would HAVE to be one of the three. Fischer seems like he might give a good ole' crusty Mike Curtis-type of interview.)

1977 Broncos - Red Miller, Craig Morton, Lyle Alzado (The emergence of Miller and Morton from relative obscurity to Coach of the Year and AFC Player of the Year would be terrific to document. Alzado was wonderfully over the top and would give a Todd Christenson-like dramatic sense to all of his quotes. Tom Jackson loved to talk all the time, so this would be great for him too)

Your thoughts?
The '72 Redskins would be a great choice. In 2001 NFL Films did an updated version of "Three Cheers for the (1971) Redskins" for their Lost Treasures series. It includes interviews with Kilmer, Diron Talbert, Roy Jefferson and others. One of my favorite parts of the programs takes place in the Redskins locker room prior to an exhibition game at San Diego. Shortly before kickoff Jefferson gets bit by some type of insect. George Allen hated distractions and the look on his face during this "crisis" was priceless as he dealt with Jefferson's anxiety.

I'm really hoping that on the 40th anniversary of the '77 Broncos season that they will be soon be the subject of an NFLN Timeline episode. Red Miller was finally inducted into the Broncos Ring of Honor in May and he's soon to be 90 years old. Craig Morton, Tom Jackson and the seemingly forgotten Randy Gradishar are a few players who could provide perspective on that amazing season. The infamous "Dirty Dozen" and their mutiny that led to the ousting of John Ralston as head coach is another related subject that could be explored further.
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JohnH19
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Re: Buffalo vs. Miami in the 1970s

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Why did Red Miller never get another opportunity as a HC after he was let go by Denver?
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Retro Rider
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Re: Buffalo vs. Miami in the 1970s

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JohnH19 wrote:Why did Red Miller never get another opportunity as a HC after he was let go by Denver?
That's a good question. The Rams reportedly offered him an assistant coaching position a few years (1988?) after he'd parted ways with the Broncos but nothing ever materialized. After years as serving as an assistant coach I think he was done being a "second bannana." From what i remember he and new Broncos owner Edgar F. Kaiser did not hit off very well in early 1981. Miller was an outspoken fellow and I don't think that went over very well with Kaiser. He was hired to coach the USFL's Denver Gold in 1983 but he eventually had a falling out with owner Ron Blanding. Blanding made a nice profit during his only season as owner but wasn't interested in putting a winner on the field. Miller went on to have a successful career in the financial sector.
7DnBrnc53
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Re: Buffalo vs. Miami in the 1970s

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From what i remember he and new Broncos owner Edgar F. Kaiser did not hit off very well in early 1981. Miller was an outspoken fellow and I don't think that went over very well with Kaiser.
I also heard that Kaiser wanted a coach and GM closer to his age, so he brought in Reeves and Grady Alderman. It's just as well, though. While I credit Miller for the team getting to SB XII (and the trade for Morton), he was a bad personnel guy. His drafts weren't that great, and he made that terrible Matt Robinson trade in 1980.
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Retro Rider
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Re: Buffalo vs. Miami in the 1970s

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7DnBrnc53 wrote:
I also heard that Kaiser wanted a coach and GM closer to his age, so he brought in Reeves and Grady Alderman. It's just as well, though. While I credit Miller for the team getting to SB XII (and the trade for Morton), he was a bad personnel guy. His drafts weren't that great, and he made that terrible Matt Robinson trade in 1980.
Dan Reeves was a great hire. Agree with your assessment of Miller as a personnel guy (anybody remember Steve Schindler?) While John Ralston was criticised for not being an X's & O's type of coach he was way better than Red at evaluating talent. After their loss to Dallas in Super Bowl XII Miller appeared to be looking to replace Craig Morton. In 1978 Broncos assistant Babe Parilli informed Morton that he was in "Red's dog house." During their 42-7 loss at Pittsburgh on a 1979 Monday Night game Miller candidly said, "If I had a Terry Bradshaw I'd play him all the time." During the '79 season an NBC reporter examining the unstable Broncos QB situation identified their starter as "Morton-Weese-Penrose." Morton & Miller had a heated exchange after their frustrating loss in the '79 Wild Card game at Houston. By 1980 Red thought he had finally found his QB but Matt Robinson (minus his week 2 performance against Dallas) was not the answer and Miller was often forced to summon Morton off the bench to bail the team out.
Red & Matt Robinson 2-1-80.jpg
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