Assuming the "Mount Rushmore" of QBs (Baugh, Unitas, Graham, Montana) is the first tier and allowing for one of Brady/Manning to join it we have five first tier QBs in NFL history.
Giving ourselves double the number of first tier QBs we might have 10 second tier players...
...who would be your choices for that second tier?
I think I count 28 quarterbacks in the Hall so some very worthy people are going to be relegated to a third tier...
or lower.
Feel free to change the parameters for your choices.
If you insist on 6 first tier and 12 second tier QBs who am I to argue?
I think I start my second tier with Manning, Marino, Starr and Luckman.
After that the choices get much harder... it is difficult to not be overly influenced by the era in which one grew up and the teams for whom one has rooted.
2nd Tier: QBs
-
ChrisBabcock
- Posts: 1798
- Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:36 pm
- Location: Tonawanda, NY
Re: 2nd Tier: QBs
I'd put the 6 QBs you mentioned as 1st tier.
My 2nd tier would be (and not necessarily in this order) John Elway, Dan Marino, Bart Starr, Fran Tarkenton, Brett Favre, Steve Young, Roger Staubach, Sid Luckman, Jim Kelly, Drew Brees, Sonny Jurgensen, Y.A. Tittle
My 2nd tier would be (and not necessarily in this order) John Elway, Dan Marino, Bart Starr, Fran Tarkenton, Brett Favre, Steve Young, Roger Staubach, Sid Luckman, Jim Kelly, Drew Brees, Sonny Jurgensen, Y.A. Tittle
Re: 2nd Tier: QBs
I agree that the first tier consists of the six mentioned. I like Chris's second tier but I'm going to add NVB, Layne and Fouts to my own.
Re: 2nd Tier: QBs
If you're only allowing for one of Manning or Brady in the first tier, it has to be Brady. There is no doubt. None.
To the second tier, I would add (in no particular order): Marino, Elway, Favre, Moon, P Manning, Staubach, Brees, A Rodgers, Fouts, S Young
To the second tier, I would add (in no particular order): Marino, Elway, Favre, Moon, P Manning, Staubach, Brees, A Rodgers, Fouts, S Young
Re: 2nd Tier: QBs
I would dispute that it's Brady without a doubt. Brady has played for stronger all around teams. He had Belichick while Manning had average at best coaches throughout his career. Dungy will always be an average coach in my mind...he was more pious than genius. And definitely no innovator.esorrells wrote:If you're only allowing for one of Manning or Brady in the first tier, it has to be Brady. There is no doubt. None.
To the second tier, I would add (in no particular order): Marino, Elway, Favre, Moon, P Manning, Staubach, Brees, A Rodgers, Fouts, S Young
But yes in a big game I would take Brady so I chose him over Manning. But more than a few would take Manning as well
Re: 2nd Tier: QBs
I would put Manning ahead of Brady in a heartbeat. I would also take Elway, Marino, and Montana over him. Tom's a nice QB, but he benefits from a great organization with a great coach that doesn't beat itself. He didn't carry teams to the SB all by himself like Elway did in the 80's.sheajets wrote:I would dispute that it's Brady without a doubt. Brady has played for stronger all around teams. He had Belichick while Manning had average at best coaches throughout his career. Dungy will always be an average coach in my mind...he was more pious than genius. And definitely no innovator.esorrells wrote:If you're only allowing for one of Manning or Brady in the first tier, it has to be Brady. There is no doubt. None.
To the second tier, I would add (in no particular order): Marino, Elway, Favre, Moon, P Manning, Staubach, Brees, A Rodgers, Fouts, S Young
But yes in a big game I would take Brady so I chose him over Manning. But more than a few would take Manning as well
Re: 2nd Tier: QBs
Remind me; how many current or future HoFers has Brady played with? There's Randy Moss and...
-
JuggernautJ
- Posts: 1436
- Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 7:14 pm
- Location: NinerLand, Ca.
Re: 2nd Tier: QBs
What I specifically didn't want this to be was another Brady vs Manning debate (please).
Hence my statement in the OP:
So far I am most surprised by the "recent" guys mentioned:
Favre and Young it would be hard to argue against.
I really like Jim Kelly as a quarterback (not just a passer) and am on the borderline with Brees because he is a "just a passer."
I have nothing against Brees but would have a hard time bumping confirmed Hall of Famers for him.
I think we should probably wait till his career is in the books before anointing him (although not Brady?).
I'm thinking my second tier would look something like:
Manning, Marino, Elway and Luckman (Tier 1.5) then: Starr, Layne, Staubach, Jurgensen, Tittle and two or three from among: Young, Favre, Kelly, NVB or Fouts.
No doubt I will get crap for not including Tarkenton but it's my list.
I do like the mention of Warren Moon... he is among my "hard to exclude."
Hence my statement in the OP:
This is about 2nd tier QBs, please, not about who belongs in tier one.JuggernautJ wrote: Feel free to change the parameters for your choices.
If you insist on 6 first tier and 12 second tier QBs who am I to argue?
So far I am most surprised by the "recent" guys mentioned:
Favre and Young it would be hard to argue against.
I really like Jim Kelly as a quarterback (not just a passer) and am on the borderline with Brees because he is a "just a passer."
I have nothing against Brees but would have a hard time bumping confirmed Hall of Famers for him.
I think we should probably wait till his career is in the books before anointing him (although not Brady?).
I'm thinking my second tier would look something like:
Manning, Marino, Elway and Luckman (Tier 1.5) then: Starr, Layne, Staubach, Jurgensen, Tittle and two or three from among: Young, Favre, Kelly, NVB or Fouts.
No doubt I will get crap for not including Tarkenton but it's my list.
I do like the mention of Warren Moon... he is among my "hard to exclude."
-
JeffreyMiller
- Posts: 830
- Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2014 11:28 am
- Location: Birthplace of Pop Warner
Re: 2nd Tier: QBs
All I know is Roy Hobbs was the best there ever was at this game ...
"Gentlemen, it is better to have died a small boy than to fumble this football."
Re: 2nd Tier: QBs
Re: Drew Brees not making the second tier:
from ESPN: 'Drew Brees just posted his fifth career 5,000-yard passing season (the rest of the known universe has combined for four -- ever)'
That is a truly incredible stat. Here is a list of some of the receivers he has had: Lance Moore, Robert Meachem, Brandon Cooks, Kenny Stills, Marques Colston. And he's also played with guys like Devry Henderson and David Boston. While the jury is still out on some of these guys, I don't think any of them are going to end up in the HoF, making his accomplishment that much more spectacular. Brees should be on this list.
from ESPN: 'Drew Brees just posted his fifth career 5,000-yard passing season (the rest of the known universe has combined for four -- ever)'
That is a truly incredible stat. Here is a list of some of the receivers he has had: Lance Moore, Robert Meachem, Brandon Cooks, Kenny Stills, Marques Colston. And he's also played with guys like Devry Henderson and David Boston. While the jury is still out on some of these guys, I don't think any of them are going to end up in the HoF, making his accomplishment that much more spectacular. Brees should be on this list.