Senior 2017

[L.C. Greenwood]

Agreed. I don't like how "large" the Hall has become. The selection committee has lost touch with the idea of only the best of the best truly belonging.

Ken Anderson had great statistics for the era he played in but I never thought of him as being at the level of the guys I feel were the best of the day; Tarkenton, Staubach, Fouts and Stabler...and I don't think Stabler should have been elected.

Heck, I'm not even sold on Bradshaw and Griese. I do understand that Terry saved his best for the postseason in general and the Super Bowls in particular but, for the most part, he was no great shakes in the regular season. Based on that, he deserves his bust in Canton but he's often overrated on lists ranking all-time great QBs. Griese was All-Pro twice, in '71 and '77, but Staubach may have been more deserving both years. He was an excellent QB but a HoFer? I'm on the fence as to whether I agree with it.

I think the difference with Bradshaw and Griese was the fact they had stronger running attacks, with a HOF back in the backfield. Roger Staubach only had Tony Dorsett for three seasons, the Steelers and Dolphins were able to have great team success built around the run. They had a formula which wasn't as pass-oriented as other teams, and there wasn't any reason to change. Bradshaw and Griese still had plenty of strong games in the regular season, and both QBs usually delivered in the postseason. The lack of passing opportunities hurt the individual numbers for those QBs, during the Steelers and Dolphins heydays, both teams rarely trailed in regular season wins.

[bachslunch]

It seems the HOF has gotten so watered down that I really have little interest in it anylonger. It no longer seems that the Hall is regulated to the top 1% of NFL talent. Now it seems as long as you are in the top 10 or 15% you will get in.

Found a website (not sure of the date, but looks very recent) that says there have been 23,204 men who have played American pro football. The PFHoF currently has 295 members, not all of whom were on-field players. My math may be wrong, but I think that's about 1.5% The percentage for MLB looks to be similar (2012 article saying 17,808 players all time, 217 playing members as of this year, 312 total members).

It's definitely not 10-15%, regardless, for either sport.

[BD Sullivan]

the Steelers and Dolphins were able to have great team success built around the run. They had a formula which wasn't as pass-oriented as other teams, and there wasn't any reason to change.

Which reminds of the (presumably) younger person who attempted to claim that Paul Warfield wasn't that great "because he didn't catch a lot of passes." He wasn't going to when he on the same team as Jim Brown, Leroy Kelly and Larry Csonka-not to mention Ernie Green, Jim Kiick and Mercury Morris.

[L.C. Greenwood]

the Steelers and Dolphins were able to have great team success built around the run. They had a formula which wasn't as pass-oriented as other teams, and there wasn't any reason to change.

Which reminds of the (presumably) younger person who attempted to claim that Paul Warfield wasn't that great "because he didn't catch a lot of passes." He wasn't going to when he on the same team as Jim Brown, Leroy Kelly and Larry Csonka-not to mention Ernie Green, Jim Kiick and Mercury Morris.

Good point. When Warfield was elected to the HOF, some people brought up his reception total. Had Warfield played another team, he certainly would have been featured more, and those numbers would have been enhanced. A tremendous talent, with a great work ethic. It's almost scary to think of the numbers the great receivers of the 60s and 70s could have put up if they were playing with today's passing rules and schemes.

[BD Sullivan]

the Steelers and Dolphins were able to have great team success built around the run. They had a formula which wasn't as pass-oriented as other teams, and there wasn't any reason to change.

Which reminds of the (presumably) younger person who attempted to claim that Paul Warfield wasn't that great "because he didn't catch a lot of passes." He wasn't going to when he on the same team as Jim Brown, Leroy Kelly and Larry Csonka-not to mention Ernie Green, Jim Kiick and Mercury Morris.

Good point. When Warfield was elected to the HOF, some people brought up his reception total. Had Warfield played another team, he certainly would have been featured more, and those numbers would have been enhanced. A tremendous talent, with a great work ethic. It's almost scary to think of the numbers the great receivers of the 60s and 70s could have put up if they were playing with today's passing rules and schemes.

Raymond Berry's field awareness was kind of the football equivalent of Ted Williams, who once had a sense that the batting box was incorrectly drawn by an inch or so--and was proven right. Berry supposedly was showing how to run a sideline route as Cowboys coach and stepped out of bounds. He insisted to Landry that the field was too narrow--Landry had it measured and it was off by 11 inches.

[John Grasso]

Raymond Berry's field awareness was kind of the football equivalent of Ted Williams, who once had a sense that the batting box was incorrectly drawn by an inch or so--and was proven right. Berry supposedly was showing how to run a sideline route as Cowboys coach and stepped out of bounds. He insisted to Landry that the field was too narrow--Landry had it measured and it was off by 11 inches.

I find that remarkable since wasn't Berry known for having bad eyesight.

[JohnH19]

Just bad enough to catch 631 balls.

[rhickok1109]

Raymond Berry's field awareness was kind of the football equivalent of Ted Williams, who once had a sense that the batting box was incorrectly drawn by an inch or so--and was proven right. Berry supposedly was showing how to run a sideline route as Cowboys coach and stepped out of bounds. He insisted to Landry that the field was too narrow--Landry had it measured and it was off by 11 inches.

I find that remarkable since wasn't Berry known for having bad eyesight.

He did wear contact lenses. And, like Bill Bradley on the basketball court, he probably had a very keen sense of where he was on the field at all times. (See John McPhee's marvelous profile of Bradley, "A Sense of Where You Are.")