HOF: TO vs Ochocinco?

[74_75_78_79_]

Who'll get inducted first between these 6-time Pro Bowl WRs and when you do anticipate each getting in?

[NWebster]

6 time Pro Bowl 2 time all pro versus 6 time pro bowl 5 time all pro, Chad Johnson should never get into the Hall, not without Del Shofner or Harlow Hill in first.

[Rupert Patrick]

6 time Pro Bowl 2 time all pro versus 6 time pro bowl 5 time all pro, Chad Johnson should never get into the Hall, not without Del Shofner or Harlow Hill in first.

Personally I don't like TO, but he will get in. Chad 85 was another flake, but he was not the clubhouse cancer Owens was, and from all accounts he was a good teammate. That being said, Chad is in my opinion more of a textbook HOVG type. He didn't have the stats of Owens or Moss or Harrison and his career is probably not going to compare well to Hines Ward, who was a Super Bowl MVP that played on many great teams.

[NWebster]

Was Chad really better than Henry Ellard, Harold Jackson, will he get in over Steve Smith, Andrew Johnson or Reggie Wayne. Not HOF.

[74_75_78_79_]

6 time Pro Bowl 2 time all pro versus 6 time pro bowl 5 time all pro, Chad Johnson should never get into the Hall, not without Del Shofner or Harlow Hill in first.

Personally I don't like TO, but he will get in. Chad 85 was another flake, but he was not the clubhouse cancer Owens was, and from all accounts he was a good teammate. That being said, Chad is in my opinion more of a textbook HOVG type. He didn't have the stats of Owens or Moss or Harrison and his career is probably not going to compare well to Hines Ward, who was a Super Bowl MVP that played on many great teams.

Off top of my head, what is TO's career 'signature' game? Yes, the wild card win over GB in '98 instantly pops up, but so do the dropsies he suffered leading up to that TD catch (not at all the only example of dropping passes in his career). I don't think there is a wild card game that gets more rememberance; mind you, the winning team being known for championships won. Signature season he assisting Reed and McNabb's Birds to only SB-berth, but isn't that marred by the locker room cancer/drama he then went on to conduct? To me, poetic justice would have McNabb getting in first. Other than TO, what other WRs did he ever have to throw to in his career yet still led his team to all those other CC games. This and he playing in pain a lot - not that the Philly fans appreciated.

Agree that TO will get in anyway and that there is noticable enough distance between he and Ocho although Ocho, as I also agree, was a better team-player. Still, I don't really know his signature game either off top of head. Is it the one where he scores that TD then takes cell phone out of his socks? He not bringing his A-game to New England I can't help but to remember. Randy Moss ought to get in before either of these two; '98 rookie year and '07 w Pats being major feathers in his cap. His known antics, particularly admitting to taking plays off can hurt him. Not that this makes up for it but, FWIW, the sportsmanship he displayed after his unbeaten mind you Pats lost to Giants somehow stays in my mind. May sound biased, but think poetic justice gets served if Hines not only gets in before Ocho but also TO & Moss. He could have easily been a primadona and begged for the ball in his career but simply (perhaps to his HOF-ASAP detriment) loved blocking more. Would like Steve Smith in before the three as well.

[JWL]

Of the players mentioned thus far in this thread, I believe Shofner, Owens, Moss, and Steve Smith played at HOF levels. I am undecided on Harlon Hill, Harold Jackson and Andre Johnson. Chad Johnson, Ward, Ellard, Wayne and McNabb are HOVG possibilities.

Considering his actual on-field performance was good to very good, Ward's fame and Pittsburgh-playing will get him inducted. If Ward had the same career with the Falcons or Jets or Cardinals or some other historically pathetic team, then he would not get in (and by same career I mean his individual performance).

[Reaser]

Considering his actual on-field performance was good to very good, Ward's fame and Pittsburgh-playing will get him inducted. If Ward had the same career with the Falcons or Jets or Cardinals or some other historically pathetic team, then he would not get in (and by same career I mean his individual performance).

Yup, I think of and have thought of Ward as a lock for that very reason - not because I believe he is a HOF'er.

[74_75_78_79_]

Considering his actual on-field performance was good to very good, Ward's fame and Pittsburgh-playing will get him inducted. If Ward had the same career with the Falcons or Jets or Cardinals or some other historically pathetic team, then he would not get in (and by same career I mean his individual performance).

Yup, I think of and have thought of Ward as a lock for that very reason - not because I believe he is a HOF'er.

I respect as well as not deny the assertion that one gets extra HOF 'points' if having played for a marquee franchise. Having played for a Super Bowl-winner helps even more. There are many who feel Bettis shouldn't be in or at least not gotten in that early; and I won't stomp on a soapbox arguing against it. He being a Steeler along with winning a Super Bowl - and that SB being his final game (albeit he not being a real factor in it) and in his home town - no doubt accumulates such 'points'. However, had he had the same career numbers with a non-marquee team that didn't win a Super Bowl, can't help but feel his name being mentioned for induction every year; perhaps by enough of the same ones who in real scenario say he shouldn't have gotten in. He was a borderline-candidate either way and fortunately he was on the team he was on while retiring exactly when he did.

Ward was a SB-winning Steeler as well with a SBMVP and an extra Ring to boot. I'm sure had he played for a non-marq/non-SB-winning franchise, he'd be left out of main discussion fair or not. This especially goes for if that team was run-first. And that's just that - he did play for a team most of his career that wasn't pass-happy, 2002 (one of his Pro Bowl years, his personal best) notwithstanding. And as mentioned earlier...he was one who liked to block at least as much as catching passes. I do think TO & Moss get in before him though, but when (if) Hines does get in, whenever that is, as with the Bus, I won't complain about the induction even if, fair or not, its for such Steeler/SB reasons.

Now Troy...that really shouldn't be a debate and do expect him in a Jacket on stage just under four years from now. Hope to attend.

[JuggernautJ]

Two friends and I ran an adult flag football league.
We decided (with input from the players) that sportsmanship should count when determining a league MVP.

Personally, I believe there are some players (and I've played with a few) whose conduct is so detrimental that it subtracts from their value to the team. As such, I believe that behavior should be considered when evaluating a player.
And as such, I would never support T. O. (or C.J.) for the Hall of Fame.

[conace21]

6 time Pro Bowl 2 time all pro versus 6 time pro bowl 5 time all pro, Chad Johnson should never get into the Hall, not without Del Shofner or Harlow Hill in first.

Personally I don't like TO, but he will get in. Chad 85 was another flake, but he was not the clubhouse cancer Owens was, and from all accounts he was a good teammate. That being said, Chad is in my opinion more of a textbook HOVG type. He didn't have the stats of Owens or Moss or Harrison and his career is probably not going to compare well to Hines Ward, who was a Super Bowl MVP that played on many great teams.

Off top of my head, what is TO's career 'signature' game? Yes, the wild card win over GB in '98 instantly pops up, but so do the dropsies he suffered leading up to that TD catch (not at all the only example of dropping passes in his career). I don't think there is a wild card game that gets more rememberance; mind you, the winning team being known for championships won. Signature season he assisting Reed and McNabb's Birds to only SB-berth, but isn't that marred by the locker room cancer/drama he then went on to conduct? To me, poetic justice would have McNabb getting in first. Other than TO, what other WRs did he ever have to throw to in his career yet still led his team to all those other CC games. This and he playing in pain a lot - not that the Philly fans appreciated.

Agree that TO will get in anyway and that there is noticable enough distance between he and Ocho although Ocho, as I also agree, was a better team-player. Still, I don't really know his signature game either off top of head. Is it the one where he scores that TD then takes cell phone out of his socks? He not bringing his A-game to New England I can't help but to remember. Randy Moss ought to get in before either of these two; '98 rookie year and '07 w Pats being major feathers in his cap. His known antics, particularly admitting to taking plays off can hurt him. Not that this makes up for it but, FWIW, the sportsmanship he displayed after his unbeaten mind you Pats lost to Giants somehow stays in my mind. May sound biased, but think poetic justice gets served if Hines not only gets in before Ocho but also TO & Moss. He could have easily been a primadona and begged for the ball in his career but simply (perhaps to his HOF-ASAP detriment) loved blocking more. Would like Steve Smith in before the three as well.

I would think that TO's signature game would either be the game against the Bears in 2000 where he set an NFL record with 20 receptions, or the 2002 Wild Card game against NY. Terrell caught 9 balls for 177 yards, 2 TD's and helped SF come back from 24 points down.