We've discussed before but I'd like views on MVP = POY

[JohnTurney]

UPI chose POY beginning sporatically in 1948, I think, then through 1969 (then went to conference) they called top awardPlayer of the year

NEA was MVP though then end of their existence, from 1955-on

PFWA was MVP from 1975 to present

AP was outstanding player, then Player of the Year, then MVP (1961) then Player of the Year (1962) then MVP from 1963-present

Are those terms, looking at it historically, synonyms? Interchangable

As with the AP-only thing when you look at it ahistorically it seems that different words and therefore different meanings. To me, back then, when reading the articles all were meant to signify the top player, etc.

There have been discussions as to "most valuable" and "best" and that applies with the Zoilo Versalles type of "MVP" a guy who is a leader, good fielding, good enough hitter, etc....

So, looking back and it's 1963---when you read the paper and see POY or MVP did you take them to mean the same thing?

[JuggernautJ]

It might be that it means different things to different people even among those who are participating the poll.
One voter might consider it a popularity contest while another thinks he has a serious responsibility to choose the best player that year.
Some might be influenced by local loyalties while others by differing levels of understanding of the game.

Given those vagaries and the many polls over the many years I would think it best to equate the two.
Regardless of the name, I think the intent at the time was to single out the most praiseworthy individual in a given season.

Semantically, however, the two titles mean two different things entirely...

[JohnTurney]

It might be that it means different things to different people even among those who are participating the poll.
One voter might consider it a popularity contest while another thinks he has a serious responsibility to choose the best player that year.
Some might be influenced by local loyalties while others by differing levels of understanding of the game.

Given those vagaries and the many polls over the many years I would think it best to equate the two.
Regardless of the name, I think the intent at the time was to single out the most praiseworthy individual in a given season.

Semantically, however, the two titles mean two different things entirely...

Right, in a voter's mind he may be using the "valuable" thing to outwight "best" or "top" player.

However, I am asking as people who are fans and memebrs of the PFRA what we think... I 100% agree with your last two sentances. The intent was to give award to top, best, most praisworthy, outstanding or whatever player. I am also thinking that in what I call the golden age---call it the 50s-80s when the NEA and UPI were still around, how did we feel when we read an article and it listed "YA Tittle" player of the year ... to me, it was same as MVP, just different wording.

The AP used, as i said, POY, then MVP, then POY then MVP over a 5-year span. That seals the deal, it was really interchangable.

[Rupert Patrick]

MVP or POY means different things in different years, top performance of the year, best player on the best team, leader of a Cinderella team or surprise team, player with the best stats to name a few. If you sort out the various MVP's throughout pro football history, you'll find they all fall into the above categories. Value takes on different meanings.

[rhickok1109]

It might be that it means different things to different people even among those who are participating the poll.
One voter might consider it a popularity contest while another thinks he has a serious responsibility to choose the best player that year.
Some might be influenced by local loyalties while others by differing levels of understanding of the game.

Given those vagaries and the many polls over the many years I would think it best to equate the two.
Regardless of the name, I think the intent at the time was to single out the most praiseworthy individual in a given season.

Semantically, however, the two titles mean two different things entirely...

Right, in a voter's mind he may be using the "valuable" thing to outwight "best" or "top" player.

However, I am asking as people who are fans and memebrs of the PFRA what we think... I 100% agree with your last two sentances. The intent was to give award to top, best, most praisworthy, outstanding or whatever player. I am also thinking that in what I call the golden age---call it the 50s-80s when the NEA and UPI were still around, how did we feel when we read an article and it listed "YA Tittle" player of the year ... to me, it was same as MVP, just different wording.

The AP used, as i said, POY, then MVP, then POY then MVP over a 5-year span. That seals the deal, it was really interchangable.

I pretty much agree with this, but I wonder ... often, ballots for such awards include some sort of criteria that voters are supposed to follow. For example, this is from the BBWAA ballot for Major League Baseball's MVP awards:

“There is no clear-cut definition of what Most Valuable means. It is up to the individual voter to decide who was the Most Valuable Player in each league to his team. The MVP need not come from a division winner or other playoff qualifier.

“The rules of the voting remain the same as they were written on the first ballot in 1931: (1) actual value of a player to his team, that is, strength of offense and defense; (2) number of games played; (3) general character, disposition, loyalty and effort; (4) former winners are eligible; and (5) members of the committee may vote for more than one member of a team.”

Admittedly, that's rather vague. But I wonder if there were criteria for the various NFL MVP/POY awards and, if so, how similar or dissimilar they were.

[JohnTurney]

MVP or POY means different things in different years, top performance of the year, best player on the best team, leader of a Cinderella team or surprise team, player with the best stats to name a few. If you sort out the various MVP's throughout pro football history, you'll find they all fall into the above categories. Value takes on different meanings.

Yes, we all get that. We've discussed that, but that is not what I am asking. And if you polled the 50 voters you may get 20 different answers.


Are the terms POY and MVP are synonyms or =very close to synonyms so as to say the UPI POY is less than the AP MVP. Is one an "MVP" because it calls itself that and the other a "POY" because it calls itself that?

Some argue that the UPI POY is a "player of the year award" and the AP or NEA MVPs are MVPs because that is what they call themselves.

I contend the voters didn't think of it that way, nor did the fans. But as historians, do we supposes that someone who voted for Roman Gabriel in 1969 as the UPI POY was thinking differently than the AP voter? I say they were voting for the same award, one guy is affiliated with the UPI the other with the AP.

I am asking is as PFRA members who purport to know a little something about this think the UPI POY is really different from the AP MVP or NEA MVP?

[JohnTurney]

Admittedly, that's rather vague. But I wonder if there were criteria for the various NFL MVP/POY awards and, if so, how similar or dissimilar they were.

I doubt there was an explanation on the ballot. I bet the AP voters were given ballot with blanks for MVP, Coach, Rookie and they filled them on. I bet the UPI voters were given a ballot with Player of the Year, Coach, Rookie and they filled them in. I bet there was not much consideration in say, 1969 or 1965 by the voters to overthink it.

What it someone was affiliated with PFWA and UPI in 1965 (I know PFWA didn't have MVP in 1965, but this is hypothetical) would he have different names one for MVP in PFWA and one for POY in UPI? I doubt it.